Since Whitney Houston’s body was seen lying in a casket…on the front cover of the latest issue of The National Enquirer, many people have expressed how distasteful it was to publish it, let alone splash it across the cover. But, as I’ve already said in my earlier post, it’s the family member or friend that has provided the magazine with this image – for money, who should be scolded. They sold her out. The tabloid is in the business to sell magazines. Millions buy the tabloids each week and they’ll pay big $$$ for an exclusive photo. That said, a photo of Whitney Houston in her casket…it’d be a name your price situation.
As shocking as Whitney’s image is, the death scene and autopsy photos of Marilyn Monroe are far, far worse. In her, we had the most beautiful, glamorous, vivacious, fun-loving soul that had ever graced Hollywood’s doorstep. A sex-symbol. And, at thirty-six…she too was dead. While I believe that Marilyn Monroe was murdered, as with Whitney Houston, drugs destroyed her.
Death is a part of life. But for the living, it’s often a difficult topic to discuss and come to terms with. Thankfully, when it’s “our time” to go, unlike these superstars, there’ll be no final photographs in death. No magazine covers. And, for the record, I’m good with that 🙂
The below photos show death in its rawest form…the death of Marilyn Monroe.
**WARNING: Graphic photographical content below***
Below: The death scene. Marilyn Monroe, naked and dead in her bed.
Below: Autopsy photo #1
Below: Autopsy photo #2
Below: Marilyn Monroe in her prime, full of life.
Michelle Vogel
Michelle Vogel (Author) - michellevogelhollywoodnews.com 
She had so much to live for.
What a shame.
George Vreeland Hill
What is strange is the autopsy diagram indicates lividity fixed on the left side of her face consistent with the position of her body as photographed in the bed. The perceived position of her arms is also consistent with what the postmortem examiner shaded and indicated in the report. What I do not understand is how the photos of her autopsy showing lividity on the right side of her face – head only shot – came to be? Are they really Marilyn Monroe – if so how can this be accounted for – why reverse the image? Strange. Was it a negative reversed when scanned for digital, or is it Marilyn?
The woman in the photos are definitely Marilyn. I don’t think many dispute that because faking such wasn’t necessary.
I guess I’m in the minority in that I have never believed the murder theories. Maybe it’s because I’m a subscriber to Occam’s razor but I think her death was an accident caused by her own hand. I say this not to be a contrarian but because there’s no solid evidence to prove otherwise.
I do believe MM had affairs with, at the very least, JFK. I don’t think JFK, RFK or any mob guys told MM any huge secrets or anything of any importance during their time together. We all know JFK has affairs with numerous women – he wasn’t a novice and he certainly knew how to compartmentalize his life. Why would he share national secrets with a woman who had a reputation of being unstable? Hell, why would he even share that kind of info with a mistress period? Same goes for RFK and the rest. The Bay of Pigs, civil rights or other issues aren’t exactly pillow talk topics.
Further, MM had attempted suicide more than a few times and also accidentally overdosed at least twice when she was married to Arthur Miller. People seem to overlook this as if it has no bearing on her fate. Take it from someone who has depression and also abused pills at various times – the smallest disappointing event can have you reaching for the bottle. I think MM did have some bad experience/disappointment that day and decided to dull the pain. In a pill haze, she forgot how much she took (which again, she did more than once) and took more.
I do believe that she was likely moved but not because anyone murdered her. I think Mrs. Murray found her and after calling Dr. Greenson and MM’s doctors, they moved her to the bed. That would explain the lividity on her back. The fact that she nothing in her GI track also isn’t suspicious. MM didn’t ingest all the pills in one sitting. I think it was a classic case of build up throughout the day/night which means she had time to digest the pills. Also bear in mind that she had been taking pills for years. She had a massive tolerance and her body certainly knew how “dump” those drugs faster than someone who never took the amount she did. Her abuse of pills also explains the discolored colon. Drug addicts often have digestive disorders and people who take sedatives are often constipated. Elvis had the same problem.
I adore MM but to think her death was some huge conspiracy to silence her seems too far fetched. It’s like there has to be some grand reasoning behind her death because people can’t believe such a beautiful woman would simply die accidentally. Look at her history, her struggle with emotional problems and her drug use. If she was just Norma Jeane Baker, people would easily come to the most logical explanation that a young woman who abused drugs for years finally had an accident in which no one was around to save her. Unfortunately, that is the fate of so many addicts.
I Understand about the living in the face. What I don’t understand is the condition of her back.
Drugs did not affect Marilyn’s body in that way, because we would’ve known earlier… Although the pictures are a little hard to see, it is clear there has been harm done to Marilyn’s body, which of course, could mean murder. She was amazing, glamorous, and out going. I wish I could have been alive when she was.
Actually bacause she was found face down, the blood pooled into her face where it caused the blotches.
My mother is an Embalmer.
She originally died while on her back and someone moved her so that she would be found face down instead. Foul play.
Actually if you look closely at the photo in bed, her left shoulder shows some lividity, so at some point she was on her back and then moved to her stomach, I would love to know the degree of rigor
Why were there marks on her back in the picture of her in bed 😦
If you look at her face she has dark discoloration. I am not sure if it is just the quality of the photos but I am guessing not. The discoloration in the photos is often seen with people who have kidney failure. In her later diary entries she mentions being ill and that the doctors where trying to figure out what was wrong with her. She had a private ambulance take her home that night. There was something medically wrong with her. Her medical needs appear to have been neglected. There is no doubt in my mind that she was murdered.
Thanks for your comment, Sarah. I think the discoloration is “post-mortem stain,” which gives a purple-red appearance in patches as the blood pools. But, she wasn’t a well woman, that’s for sure. Fox did not believe she was sick when she said she was sick, but in truth, most of the time she was just too sick to work. Yes, a lot of it was drug related, but she was pushed and prodded from film to film with little regard for her failing health, both physically and mentally.
I see, well thank you for your input. I was wondering what that discoloration was. I do believe she was sick. I am not sure with what. Poor thing. She was put through hell for the entertainment of others. She deserved much better than what she got from this life. RIP Marilyn
Concerning conspiracy issues,,,Joe Kennedy paid Jackie at least 1 mil $ to stay with JFK. Joe also knew of the fierce attraction and weakness he had for Marilyn. I can easily believe that Joe Kennedy, caring only for his dynasty, would get rid of Marilyn. She was a THREAT to JFK’s. Presudency.. I’ve researched all of this every way possible !!!! M was working making a movie at time she died. Also, she was lonely a good part of the time. But let’s not forget how determined and strong she was about her career and fame. Anything is possible. However, I do not believe it was accidental. She had come a distance since episodes of being what has been cruelly labeled unstable. She just was a woman who had everything, except someone to come home to at end of the day. And to sleep with. A companion. But that kind of depression rarely leads to suicide. This is my taje on her death. I welcome repkies.
Thank you, KjR
Daddy Joe was unable to even eat chicken noodle soup, he had a massive stroke the in the fall of 61, MM passed in Aug 62, he was unable to speak so I seriously doubt Daddy Joe had anything to do with MM passing
The discoloration is a result of her laying face down at tiem of death. The blood settles at the lowest part of the body which would have been the front of her body and face. I too believe she was “silenced,” and probably by an injection in the rectum area. Guess we’ll never know. Powerful people involved here, right???
I totally agree with you. I’ve known this all my life. Just wonder why it’s still covered up after all of these years. The truth should come out b/c all of the parties involved are now dead. I know the Kennedy’s were involved. Am I the only one who sees this?
Thank you — I thought that was what caused the discoloration. Blood pooling after cirucalation stops Just so haunting. My mother idolized Marilyn all her life and collected books and I remember seeing that photo but being too young to understand what it was. For some random reason I just searched it to see if that photo was on here. – My mom was very good friends with Robert Slatzer and was told that Marilyn did have several health problems he did not think she would live a long life, not because of drugs or suicide- but ill health. simple He also said he thought she was murdered ! No matter how you cut it. Its just so sad. – Life wasn’t good to her.
She had an abortion which was one of the Kennedy’s baby’s………she was also raped in a movie of top guys having her while she was in a semi drugged state at Frank Sinatra house…..
She suffered with respiratory problems a lot, Sarah. She got sick very easily. Obviously, her immune system was shot, most probably from all the drugs she took. For much of her career, she was paid minimum wage and Fox made millions out of her. It was only her last few films, after starting her own company and renegotiating her contract with the studio that she made more. Too little, too late.
Such a shame and waste, I have always been a fan of M M , I love watching her films, I do think there was a conspiracy surrounding her death and she was very poorly treated and used by people, she wasn’t well, if alive today she would have had help. R.I.P Marilyn x
In response to the discoloration on Marilyns face, I am an embalmer and we call that discoloration lividity, since Marilyn was found on her stomach with her head tilted to the right, blood will pool in that area, had she died on her back, her facial discoloration would not have occured, during the embalming process, alot of the discoloration will sometimes disapear, sometimes we have to apply alot of makeup to cover up the discoloration if the embalming cannot flush out the discoloration
Thanks for posting, John. Do you have a theory as to how she died? She most certainly did not die on her stomach, she was put there. But she was in that position for a number of hours which would explain the facial discoloration.
I do, I believe what was stated in Dr. Noguchi’s report, that she had a “discoloration” in her bowels, that can only mean one thing, something was introduced into her rectally and it iritated the bowels, possibly an enema of a combination of chloral hydrate and the nembutal, which Dr. Greenson had prescribed, I have seen hundreds of overdose victims from prescription meddication and 99.9% vomit, she had no vomit what so ever, in fact she only had 20cc’s of brownish colored fluid in her stomach, if she took that many nembutals, where were they? there was no visual confirmation she had taken any nembutal, so are the authorities saying, she opened each capsule, emptied the contents into a glass and then drank it ?? There were a number of people who witnessed Bobby Kennedy in L.A. that night, I think he definately had something to do with her death, just look at her hair in the bedroom photo, it is all matted, maybe they did take her to a hospital as Mr. Schaefer (from ambulance company) stated his company transported her to a local hospital, but died enroute, so they brought her back and put her back in bed, she obviously did not move around alot in her bed, the covers look undisturbed, like someone just covered her up.
I feel confidant that the White House had something to do with this, with Bobby being in California that weekend and besides if the Kennedy administration can assasinate the leader of South Vietnam, who says they cannot silence a woman who had the goods on both the President and Attorney General, 48 hours before she was “going to blow the lid off of the Kennedy boys” she dies ? and with their political pull, I think the Coroners office was forced to say it was a suicide, but the death certificate clearly states “probable suicide” well it is or it is’nt and I think it is ironic, 6 years later, Bobby Kennedy gets shot in L.A. and now his death seems to be a conspiracy, to many shots fired, when assailants gun only held 6 shots, I think somehow Bobby got pay back for his misdeed from 6 years earlier, just my opinion.
You notice in photo number one her head is tilted to the right – hence the left side of her face should exhibit the lividity – yet it is seen on the right side of her face in photos and autopsy report. Is
photo 1 a reverse image?
Thanks for that detailed account, John. I agree with you. Obviously, she didn’t open every pill and dissolve it in water, though that’s what she would have had to have done for the scenario presented to make sense. When Sgt. Clemmons arrived on the scene, there wasn’t even a glass in the room. The bathroom adjoining her room was being renovated and the water was turned off. Later, we see a photo of a glass on her bedside table…a plant?
RFK chartered a helicopter to get out of L.A. on the night she died. He landed in San Francisco and allegedly called Peter Lawford to find out if “she was dead yet”? This according to FBI files.
DiMaggio blamed the Kennedy brothers, and rightly so. There’s a mish-mash of scenarios and players, and I don’t think we’ll ever truly know what happened to her. One thing’s for sure, it wasn’t suicide…deliberate OR accidental.
I believe that Bobby had something to do with her death. A month or two before her death she had an abortion and had told Bobby that the child was not his and in fact was his brother John’s child. But those that were close to Ms.Monroe knew that that wasn’t true because she hadn’t seen John in over a year and was still messing around with Bobby. I feel Bobby was outraged with this knowledge. Also Bobby had been seen entering a car just a few hours before she was found dead. And just my personnel theory I feel that the Rat Pack was so devastated by the death of their leading lady and killed Bobby Kennedy.
Hi Ashley, President Kennedy did continue his relationship with her up until his birthday in 62, remember Marilyn sang at his birthday party at Madison Square Garden, they did stay together that night at the Carlyle Hotel, so the time frame for her pregnancy very well could’ve been President Kennedys baby, also, the abortion was covered up by her Dr’s removing her gall bladder, but during her autopsy, there was no evidence of any recent “traumas” in her uterus, so the procedure must have been done during her gall bladder surgery.
That history about the abortion is a lie. Marilyn wasn’t interested in Bobby. But she knows to much and she threaten to tell what she knows. There many many lies about Marilyn and John Kennedy… I suggest you all to read “Marilyn Monroe: The Final Years” Of Keith Badman, he made an excelent research and prove that all the history of a romance between her and president is a big bunch of lies.
When it comes to Marilyn Monroe, all of the, “it’s a lie, it’s not a lie” comments are purely speculative. There’s SO much information, and SO much mis-information, it basically comes down to your opinion on the matter, that’s all. If any one of us knew exactly what happened, this to-and-fro, and the myriad of stories and theories that have gone on for half a century wouldn’t exist.
All evidence that has ever been compiled objectively concludes that she had to have been injected with the overdose, and did not have any remnants of it in her stomach to indicate taking it orally. Marilyn did not inject herself, ever. She did not like needles, and had house calls from her doctor when she was medicated this way. She was either killed by a doctor at someone else’s orders, or was injected by someone who obtained the drug and did it themselves. It is pretty similar to what happened to Michael Jackson in that he was killed by his doctor and did not kill himself, but people make a bigger deal about these things in current times. All common sense points to Robert Kennedy, and as most people know, Marilyn was a mess when it came to rejection. She was passed around between the Kennedy brothers, and treated like a whore. There are detailed accounts that Marilyn was going to go to Washington and tell America what kind of men the Kennedys really were before those plans were deterred and she ended up dying first. Drug control was not very good back then, and if the FBI files indicate that RFK was calling to ask if she was dead before she was discovered by her maid, he would have to be the one who did/arranged it. He could have easily obtained the drugs even without his standing. The Kennedys thought they were untouchable, and the travesty of their getting off scot-free for her murder is unfortunate proof that they were. I saw a vintage book about Marilyn’s death, complete with DIFFERENT photos, and the medical examiner was quoted as saying that the facial discoloration was not present before the autopsy procedures were performed. By all accounts, she was beautiful when she was discovered, and that the damage done to her body as pictured in any autopsy photos were a result of the procedures themselves. By her hair you can easily tell that it was completely wet in the post-mortem photos, however those are NOT the photos that I saw in the book published shortly after her death, which actually looked like Marilyn, unlike these ones, which feature significant sagging and enlargement of her ears and diminishment of her chin, which makes no sense and does not match her facial architecture. She had a permanent chin implant, but even without that, those photos do not match. Her hair is also significantly longer in these photos and lacks the layering she had and it looks like an older woman.
I agree Heather, her hair was wet, and the facial structure is off.
Hi Grace,
In which picture are you referring to the wet hair, her face looks slightly bloated is because A) she was lying on her face which caused the discoloration in her face. B) when a person has a full autopsy, abdomenn, thoracic region and cranium, well when they do the head, they (Dr’s) have to pull the skin down and away and up over the face, that can also cause bloating, if it is the autopsy pics your talking about, her entire body was washed following the autopsy
Yes, lividity. MM was moved after her death. I have read tons of different articles about this. Some said there was bruising (not lividity) also on her legs and other areas. There was no Chloral Hydrate or Nembutal traces in her esophagus. Her bedsheets were being washed by Eunice Murray when the authorities showed up (hours after her death). Years later, after Greenson and Murray had been interviews countless times, it is said that Murray stated something to the effect of “why doesn’t everyone leave it alone, whats done is done’ or something like that. Which lead people to belive that she knew the truth and had asked to hide it. Of course I only know from the sites Ive read and being fascinated in Marilyn in general. From everything I have read, there is no doubt in my mind that she was murdered.. By orders of either the Kennedys or mob.
Hi Baranda, I read that there was soome bruising, but Noguchi did not note it in his report, but Sgt. Clemmons did notice it when he showed up after the first call was made, there was alot Sgt Clemmons wanted to say more but was ordered by the higher ups to keep quiet, it is ironic that Eunice Murray was doing laundry at that early hour, since there were only the 2 of them (MM, EM) in the house at that hour, maybe Eunice was cleaning MM sheets because of the “cocktail Enema” that leaked everywhere, it was also noted in the autopsy report, that her bowels only had “slightly hardened fecal matter” and no sign of any liquid, because it had already leaked out afterwards, I have read about EM interviews years after, she alluded to “others being in the house” late that night, if truth be told, Kennedy’s paid her off, and why was Pat Newcomb in Hyannisport a few days after MM died, because Peter Lawford wanted her out of dodge, where the press could talk to her and in 50 years she has never discussed the night MM died. Who better to attest to her mental state in the days leading up to her “alleged suicide” her press secretary, but she was mum on everything.
I found out 10 years ago through ancestry.com I am related to MM through her mothers side of the familly and since then I was always checking on sites and talking to people about her passing and before I knew this, I knew David Kennedy (Bobby’s son) and when he drank he would talk about stuff his family had done, from his Grandfather to his Uncles and his Dad, he said there was always alot of friction between his Mom and Dad after MM died and Ethel DID not want to be in L.A. the week Bobby got shot, because of the MM connection and there was always friction between her and Peter Lawford after MM died as well, he said his Aunt Pat (lawford) always liked MM and Ethel refused to hear about MM after her death, according to David, his Mom was a real nut case.
I do not think the Mob had anything to do with her death, it would be more they had against the Kennedy’s, I think it was all Bobby and Jack’s doing to get rid of her, I think Greenson was in on it as well, he supplied the drugs and I am sure he was paid off as well,,,poor Joe DiMaggio, he loved her so much and tried to save her many times, but as history knows, Joe D. refused to shake Bobby’s hand at Yankee stadium during an old timers game,,as my Dad would say,,,what a tangle web we weave, when we tend to decieve
What was commented earlier about the gall bladder surgery being a cover up for her Kennedy abortion. Marilyn’s well documented gall bladder surgery had already taken place in 1961. She sang to the President in the spring of 1962 and reports claim she stayed with him later at the Carlyle where this supposed pregnancy happened by some accounts. Other accounts have her sleeping with Bobby shortly after, which if true, she wouldn’t have known who the father was.
I stumbled on this site and am fascinated by all the information. I have been a fan of Marilyn since I was a little girl. When I was 24 I was on a date. We were at Chicago Pizzaria on Chestnut Street in San Francisco. I looked over my shoulder and realized Joe DiMaggio was standing behind me. He tapped me on the shoulder and told me I was one of the most beautiful women he has seen. I was astounded. Joe and his friend ended up sharing our table and he was the sweetest man ever.
What a wonderful memory to have, Jules. That’s quite the compliment coming from the man who was married to Marilyn 🙂
Very interesting comments, John. I have been looking for footage of the day Joe D ignored Robert K at the old timers game. Apparently it was shown on TV and his snub was so obvious, everyone was talking about it. I had a look on YouTube but came up with nothing.
Without doubt, money was involved to shut people up. Money talks, as they say. There were a lot of people involved, a lot who knew the truth and everyone stuck together. That doesn’t happen unless a lot of money exchanges hands to keep the secret closely guarded.
I was told by David Kennedy, that his father had that footage scraped, Bobby was good friends with Roone Arlidge from ABC, who back then televised those games, it was billed as the game of the week because of the old timers game before hand, so yes, money has its influences, Poor David, he was such a tortured soul and he was a great guy, but seeing his Dad shot live on t.v. really screwed him up, he would always talk about it, plus back then, they did not have the mental health services like they do today, it sure did not help his sister in law who recently hung herself, she had drinking problems and addiction problems to drugs as well, show me a Kennedy from the 2nd generation that did not,,,JFK Jr and his sister Caroline never did, Jackie kept them away from Cape Cod in the summers and away from all the other cousins, because of their bad behavior
THE KENNEDYS HAD THAT KIND OF MONEY
Or unless those who know the secrets had stuff about them that they could not afford to get out sort of speak. Either way, I think maybe some day the truth just might come out..then again its been how long now .. and all the players that were involved are already deceased.
Well, that would explain why I can’t find the footage. Thanks for letting me know that info, John. The Kennedy curse goes far and wide. I’m sure there are/were a select few who are genuinely nice people, like David was, and it’s unfortunate that he suffered mentally because of what happened to his father. Alcohol and illicit drugs is no replacement for proper mental health treatment. In fact, it’s a recipe for disaster!
You would not believe some of the things David told me, plus he had no reason to lie, I think he just wanted someone to talk to and he poured his heart out and I felt so bad for him, he even tried to distance himself from them, take for instance when he died, he died at the Brazillian Court Hotel in W. Palm Beach, he did not even want to stay at the compound with his family, but he would go over during the day to see Grandma Rose, but sadly David got back into drugs during that trip, he just did 90 days in rehab, but as I said before, he carried ALOT of guilt because of his Dad, he even told me one time, the last morning he spent with his Dad, they were swimming out at Lawfords place and Dave said he got caught in a rip tide and his Dad swam as hard as he could to save David, Bobby even got a sand burn on his forehead (being slammed into the ground) and David was upset and did not want his Dad to go downtown to the “official Hotel,,Ambassador” David had a bad feeling that day, the poor guy almost saw his Dad drown and now this, David pleaded with his Dad not to go,,then 5 hours later, he is watching t.v. and sees his Dad down on the floor with blood on him.
The only one in Davids family who really cared about him was his sister Courtney, they were very close, she was the one would get him cleaned up in rehab, but the rest of them, looked at him like the black sheep, and if you were to check this out, there were no warm eulogies from Uncle Teddy, in fact Davids funeral was not in a church, it was in his Moms living room at Hickory Hill, they had a deacon, not even a priest, Ethel was a real bugger and I could see what David had to endure, David once confided in me that he tormented his Mom about MM,,that sent her over the edge, she’d beat him with hair brushes or what ever she got her hands on,,,Poor David
John…Thank you for all of your informational posts. I agree! I think Bobby Kennedy was all over this!
Oh Geez! Poor David is right! He had no hope, did he?! Very sad. I have a couple of private questions for you, John. E-mail me when you get a moment – mvozus@gmail.com
God, this is so sad :'(.
Why her face is like that?
I miss she so much.
ps. Who killed Marilyn?
Hi JJ, Marilyns face is like that because of the position of her body when she passed away, as you can see by the photo of her lying in bed, on her stomach and her head turned to the right, the blood pools to the lowest point on the human body, if you die laying on your back, your back will turn purple, that is called lividity, when Elvis died on his bathroom floor, he was found on his face, the paramedics thought they were working on an African American male, they were shocked when told it was in fact Elvis, his entire face and his chest were completely black, he also had an industrial sized air conditioner on his roof, the cold combined with his body laying face down, caused his condition, I am also a huge Elvis fan and I got to know the embalmers who worked on him and they confirmed his condition, but he did have an open casket.
As far as who killed Marilyn, thats the $60,000 question, I have my hunch, but that is my opinion, Marilyn has so many fans to this day and you are not alone in missing her.
Michelle, I am having trouble sending an email to you
I got your e-mail, John. Just responded to you. Thanks 🙂
I’m sorry but when she is laying on her back isn’t she lying on the left side of her face???? so Why is the right side discolored???
sorry lying on her stomach…
Hi Ashley, My bad, she was on her left side of her face, facing to the right side, the lividity will show on her entire face, so long as she was facing down ward, if she was on her back, her face would’ve been fine
http://www.marilynmonroepages.com/autopsy/
John, you know that Marilyn and the President spent the night together based on what? You also know that she was carrying the President’s baby based on what? Sorry to sound so bitchy and it isn’t because I am a JFK fan, it is because all I ever hear is rumor rumor and more rumor and no evidence is presented.
Hi Betty,
Dont worry, My late uncle was friends with Roy Kellerman, who was the agent in charge during the Presidents trip to Dallas when he was killed, Roy told my uncle alot of interesting things that went on behind closed doors, also, almost every agent that was assigned to either the President or Mrs. Kennedy, developed serious drinking habits and as they say when you drink, the truth comes out, Jackie Kennedy was not at the birthday bash at MSG, I believe she was out of the country at the time, and if she was there, Marilyn would never have shown up, I was told that she was in fact carrying his baby and he told her she must abort it, which she did, plus alot of his phone calls were taped from the oval office and if you ever get the chance to go to his library, you will be amazed at what is on them
Thanks John. I have a friend who is retired FBI and he knew all the agents in the Kennedy detail and while he stays true to his sort of “vows” of silence in regards to personal issues of the First Family he did confirm the serious drinking problems of some of those agents.
You really need to write a book, John!
No way, I would end up swimming with the fishes
LOL! Yeah, you probably would!
Why when they took her out of her house when she died and then brought her back, did they not put her back in the position they found her?
How would you go to his library John?
Kris – http://www.jfklibrary.org/
Just stumbled on your blog whilst looking at Google pics of Marilyn and wanted to comment as found the above discussion so interesting and informative! Also, never seen the second autopsy pic before. A good, thought proving blog entry. I never saw the pics of Whitney but totally agree with you about the pics of Marilyn; I have no idea what purpose they served other than to convince the public that indeed she was dead as for such a young, everything to live for, loving life (to a certain extent) person it may have been hard to believe. Even so, very bad taste but a good debate going on. xxx
Thanks, Elisabeth. We like to stir things up a bit 🙂 The Marilyn Monroe autopsy photos certainly did that! Hope you visit my blog regularly. Take care xo
I would like to speak to you John.Have your e-mail or something like that.Talk about MM,
Hi ,
Also stumbled across your blog this morning and really enjoyed the discussion. Thanks. 🙂
Michelle I need to talk to you about documentation I have about the night she died I e-mailed you.
I was reading through the comments and just realized this conversation was extremely recent. John kinda quit talking, has anyone heard back from him?
No, I haven’t heard from John, Amber. I guess he’s said everything there was to say.
Hi Amber, I am here, what would you like to know, I am an open book, I check my mail daily, I was kinda busy with work, but saw your post and thought I would reply ok,,Michelle, How have you been ?
Thank you for replying! I was just reading through all the comments and was amazed at everything I was reading. The knowledge you have about all of this is amazing. I’ve done so much research for years, but have never gotten so much clarity on her tragic death, until now, In less than a hour, I might add. I’d like to share my email too for conversation on this if you don’t mind. Amberelyse86@gmail.com
Ahhh, there you are, John. I had visions of you and “the fishes” taking a dip together 😉 I’ve been very busy finishing up the proofs on my upcoming Lupe Vélez proofs. Pleased to say they’re now DONE! The book will be printed soon and released by late-July – YAY!
I heard she died with a phone in her right hand but I have never seen a photo of it?
Hey Kevin,,,If the phone was in her right hand, it would have been under her body, if you look at the picture (the newest one) she is contorted to her right, although Sgt Clemmons did state he saw the reciever in her right hand, he followed the cord under her body, her room did not have a phone jack, like we have today, hers was hard wired into the wall, outside of her room and she carried the phone into her room, it may have been placed back in the original location
Sorry to double post but I’ve never seen any photo of a phone in the room period. I know it was a phone on a cord that she took to her bedroom, unless its under the sheets. Still the very first photo?, if she had a phone in her right hand and had tried to call someone and fell asleep from pills, that first picture doesn’t add up, something is altered or arranged.
Didn’t Marilyn talk to Joe D’s son that night?
Hi Michelle, I am not swimming with the fishes, just been busy,,,,
Hi
I Adore and love Marilyn and have so much respect for her.
Now that ive seen these pictures its so cleer to me that she has been murded.
Thank you so much for the info and pictures.
Regards
Lommo
Marilyn Monroe was not murdered and she did not committ suicide. She was a long time user of barbituates, prescribed by Dr. Engleberg. The results after autopsy resulted in 13 miligrams of barbituate poisoning in her liver 4 miligrams in her blood stream. The 13 miligrams concentrated in her liver was a result of taking this drug for many years. The 4 miligrams was the residual amount she had taken the day before. Dr. Greenson had spent most of the day with her, departing at 7pm, told her to take the Chlorohydrate he had recently prescribed to her to help her sleep weening her off of the barbituates. (Total malpractice on Dr, Ralph Greensons part) This is why, after death,
she had 8 miligrams of chlorohydrate in her blood and none in her liver ( she died before any chlorohydrate could travel to her liver). The combination of the two drugs is what killed her. She must have taken the chlorohydrate shortly before her conversation with Joe Dimagio Jr, or shortly after, since her conversation over the phone with Joe Jr, according to Joe Jr, went very well shortly after 7pm. At aprox. 7:45, 1/2 hour later Peter Lawford calls and is disturbed during their phone conversation because Marilyn is slurring her words. It takes aprox 1/2 hour for Chlorohydrate to take effect. Peter Lawford then calls Eunice Murray on another phone line because Marilyns phone is busy (off the hook) and ask Eunice to check on Marilyn. Eunice tells Peter she is ok. My theory is, shortly after Peter’s call to Eunice, Eunice goes back to check on Marilyn again, hears a loud busy signal coming from her phone thru the bedroom door, since it is off the hook. Calls on Marilyn and there is no answer, panics, calls Dr. Ralph Greenson, he comes over and finds her near death or dead somtime before 10:30pm. Dr. Greenson now realizes his horible mistake and, begins the cover up to save his own ass from malpractice and the one who inadvertenly killed the most famous women in the world. Eunice begins washing the bed linens, cloths etc because Marilyn vomits on the bed empting her stomach of any chlorohydrate pills, residue etc. Do you really think that someone would kill Marilyn Monroe with Eunice Murray in the house watching T.V. End of story.
Well is that not murder then. You mentioned it was not murder or suicide then you go on about Dr Greenson realising his mistake and tries to cover it up…at the end of the day we are all sumising what has or has not happened. I would love to know the exact truth but it will not come out…..the only ones who really know the truth are the ones involved!!!!!!
Concerning my last remarks in regards to the death of Marilyn Monroe. I became interested in Marilyn after learning that a dear friend of mine new her as a friend
when they were teens. Now in her eighties, she remembers little Norma Jean as if it were yesterday. A lot of people, since her death, have spent much thought and time, wanting, wishing, hoping that they too were a part of Marilyn’s life. Some people have gone so far as to attach themselves to Marilyn in some way, writing untruths, lies, stories, that in some way, over many years began to sound as if they were true, even so much as to bewilder the writers themselves as they began to cash their checks in the mail. Hence, their stories forever derailing us from simple truths. As much as some would like to continue to glamorize the already glamorous Marilyn, the simple truth is, she made a terrible mistake ingesting to much of her brand new prescription of Chlorohydrate. Her other prescription of Barbituates were very addictive, the more you take, the more tolerant your system becomes, therefore, the need for higher and higher dosages. Who really knows how many pills she felt she had to take to put herself to sleep every night after many years of use from this addiction. Whatever is was, I feel strongly, that, like Michael Jackson’s doctor, Marilyn’s psychiatrist Dr. Ralph Greenson, was micro managing her and her prescriptions to keep the Fox studio happy. Marilyn, at the moment of ingestion, was unaware of the looming danger adding Chlorohydrate to an already seasoned liver of barbituates that had metabolized from nightly use. It is my belief, that she ingested the Chlorohydrate, either via Dr. Ralph Greenson’s direction before leaving the house that fateful evening, or that Marilyn took upon herself to take a similar dosage as she was use to with the Barbituates. There are many books by authors that have done their research; read these books and learn. What I have written is a very brief synopsis of what I think happened that night. Her other doctor, Dr. Engleberg, said in a live interview, that Marilyn must have suddenly, almost instantaneously, been stricken with depression between her upbeat, loving, conversation with Joe Dimagio Jr. and Peter Lawfords phone call, about 1/2 hour. Dr. Engleberg was the one prescribing the barbituates, he was covering his own ass a well. Why do you think both doctors were sitting in her room when the police officer showed up at 4:30am and saw Marilyn lying neatly on her bed, phone in her hand. The room was probably a mess. Marilyn was probably a mess. They were there because they wanted to make sure they got their story straight. “She must have taken all of these,” bullshit! And, Eunice Murray all the sudden decides to go to Europe for a month, on who’s bank account? Shame on Los Angeles, all of these charactors should have been prosecuted, brought to justice in the court of law just like Michael Jackson’s yes men. I’m sure that today her death certificate would not read “probable suicide.” It would read “death by her physician’s big huge fat mistake at Marilyn’s and her loving fans expense.” In a film clip you can see Dr. Ralph Greenson walking around at Marilyn’s funeral, he looks like shit, about ready to have a gut wrenching nervous breakdown, because he knows he is going to take this to his grave! I was personally told that, “even in a room full of beautiful women, when Marilyn walked in, everyone turned to look at her, she was stunning.”
Don’t mean to be picking on you but your dear freind only new the young Norma Jean, people change so she will have good memories sure… but not the true Marilyn as she was not part of her life at that stage….a little fantasy I think (on her part or possibly yours)….
Gary, thanks for your comments i know its been some time since your last post but i agree with everything that you had said, Marilyn was so dependent on both these doctors? but more so with Dr Greenson even her close friend her press agent Pat had said similar that she did not trust his actions and thought that Marilyn was under some sort of control by him? he constantly controlled her life even being on the Fox payroll in order to get Marilyn on the film set there was a lot going on behind close doors that no one knew about and Marilyn was unable to breakaway from these people just using her…the studios fear that they needed her to make millions for the studio and Dr Greenson needed her celebrity status to pay his huge salary which she did, each of her sessions with him cost her thousands of dollars go and check out her last account statements of her estate after she died and there will be huge expenses paid to Dr Greenson ? poor Marilyn she was truly screwed by these people…and i also agree that both these Doctors should of been prosecuted.
Tell me if I am wrong, but I believe Pat Newcomb is the only one still living that was at the house the day Marilyn died. Wouldn’t Pat know why Dr. Ralph Greenson was at the house most of the day right up until 7pm, what was wrong with Marilyn? Wouldn’t Pat know if Bobby Kennedy showed up that day? Wouldn’t Pat know if Marilyn left the house that day with Eunice Murray to take that walk along the beach where everyone says Marilyn looked drugged? Wouldn’t Pat know if Marilyn was suicidal? Wouldn’t Pat know about Marilyn’s addiction problem? Pat was there, why is she silent, what does she have to hide? There’s a lot of things Pat might know now that there are more questions then answers these fifty years later. Who in the hell has the power to bring this women and any other persons surrounding her death to justice before they too die off? And, don’t tell me they only took one picture of her lying dead in her room that morning, where are all the photo’s. There were tons of photographers and camaramen surrounding her house that morning, where are all the photo’s and film footage? Why isn’t anyone doing anything about this? There are no Statute of Limitations concerning the death of a person.
Concerning my last remarks in regards to the death of Marilyn Monroe. I became interested in Marilyn after learning that a dear friend of mine new her as a friend
when they were teens. Now in her eighties, she remembers little Norma Jean as if it were yesterday. A lot of people, since her death, have spent much thought and time, wanting, wishing, hoping that they too were a part of Marilyn’s life. Some people have gone so far as to attach themselves to Marilyn in some way, writing untruths, lies, stories, that in some way, over many years began to sound as if they were true, even so much as to bewilder the writers themselves as they began to cash their checks in the mail. Hence, their stories forever derailing us from simple truths. As much as some would like to continue to glamorize the already glamorous Marilyn, the simple truth is, she made a terrible mistake ingesting to much of her brand new prescription of Chlorohydrate. Or, although it is said no needle marks were found, there is the possibilty that Dr. Ralph Greenson injected her with Chlorohydrate before he left her house at 7pm that evening. According to Eunice Murray her housekeeper, Marilyn said to her shortly after Ralph’s leaves, “I think I will turn in now Mrs Murray, goodnight.” Her other prescription of Nembutal was very addictive, the more you take, the more tolerant your system becomes, therefore, the need for higher and higher dosages. They don’t even sell some of this stuff anymore it is so deadly. Who really knows how many pills she felt she had to take to put herself to sleep every night after many years of use from this addiction. Whatever is was, I feel strongly, that, like Michael Jackson’s doctor, Marilyn’s psychiatrist Dr. Ralph Greenson, was micro managing her and her prescriptions to keep the Fox studio happy. Marilyn, at the moment of ingestion or injection by her doctor, was unaware of the looming danger adding Chlorohydrate to an already seasoned liver of Nembutal that had metabolized from nightly use. ( I would like to know more about Nembutal’s effects on the liver over many years of use?) So she gets the Chlorohydrate, either via Dr. Ralph Greenson’s direction before leaving the house that fateful evening, or that Marilyn took upon herself to take a similar dosage as she was use to with the Barbituates. There are many books by authors that have done their research; read these books and learn. What I have written is a very brief synopsis of what I think happened that night. Her other doctor, Dr. Engleberg, said in a live interview, that Marilyn must have suddenly, almost instantaneously, been stricken with depression between her upbeat, loving, conversation with Joe Dimagio Jr. and Peter Lawfords phone call, about 1/2 hour later. Dr. Engleberg was the one prescribing the Nembutal, he was covering his own butt a well. Why do you think both doctors were sitting in her room when the police officer showed up at 4:30am and saw Marilyn lying neatly on her bed, phone in her hand. The room was probably a mess. from vomit. Like John said ( the other blogger) 99.9% of these overdoses end up in vomit. (Who knows, maybe the doctors, aling with Eunice and Mickey Rudin, Marilyn’s attorney spent some of those hours in the middle of the night looking to replace Marilyn’s mattresses because they couldn’t get rid of the smell by just washing the sheets. Both doctors were there because they wanted to make sure they got their story straight when the police arrived. “She must have taken all of these,” bull! It was Eunice Murray who couldn’t get her story straight as to when she discovered that Marilyn was in trouble. What was it Eunice? 3am, 12am, 10pm, come on! And, Eunice Murray all the sudden decides to go to Europe for a month after Marilyn’s death, on who’s bank account? Shame on Los Angeles, all of these charactors should have been prosecuted, brought to justice in the court of law just like Michael Jackson’s yes men. I’m sure that today her death certificate would not read “probable suicide.” It would read “death by her physician’s big huge fat mistake at Marilyn’s and her loving fans expense.” In a film clip you can see Dr. Ralph Greenson walking around at Marilyn’s funeral, he looks like completely distraught, about ready to have a gut wrenching nervous breakdown, because he knows he is going to take this to his grave! I was personally told that, “even in a room full of beautiful women, when Marilyn walked in, everyone turned to look at her, she was stunning.”
I would like to correct myself concerning who called Eunice Murray after Peter Lawford’s call to Marilyn around 7:45pm. After many attempts by Peter trying to call Marilyn back because of his desperate concern for her heath, the phone is now busy. Peter calls on Mickey Rudin for some help (Marilyns attorrney and relative of Dr. Ralph Greenson). Mickey tells Peter not to call over there because of publicity reasons. Really, whats the problem here “Mick.” So Mick calls Eunice Murray on the other line asking Eunice to check on Marilyn. This is where the story takes some twist and turns. Apparently, Eunice the house keeper, tells Mick that Marilyn is O.K.. I believe Eunice now knows that Marilyn is not O.K.. Eunice begins banging on Marilyn’s door, “Mick must be right there must be something wrong.” Remember, the “busy signal coming from Marilyn’s phone through the bedroom door.” Eunice tells Mick shortly after 8pm, “there is a problem Mick, Marilyn is not responding.” Mick tells Eunice to call Dr, Greenson right away for some help. Mick then calls Peter back and tells him a little white lie and says, “no worrys Marilyn is fine.” Mick calls Marilyn’s publicist Arhur Jacobs and his wife Natalie Trundy Jabobs at the Hollywood Bowl that evening sometime around 10:30pm, they leave the bowl. Arthur drops his wife off at their house while he speeds off to Marilyn’s house. Someone calls Marilyn’s doctor, Dr. Engleberg, he high tails it over to Marilyn’s house. So here you have Dr. Greenson, Dr. Engleberg, Mick and Eunice freaking out over Marilyn’s body and questioning themselves, backtracking, where did things go wrong. Dr. Engleberg says to Ralph that he just prescribed some Nembutal to Marilyn, Dr. Greenson says I just prescribed Chlorohydrate to her, and as a matter of fact I gave her a dose before I left her house an hour and a half ago. Both look into each others eyes and crap there pants. Eunice is employed by good old Ralph, and she is told what to say, how to say it, “start cleaning the bed linens, and for it, we will send you to Europe, all expense paid,” until this thing blows over. Mick finally calls Peter back at 1pm, and tells him Marilyn is dead. So the cover up begins, because we all know that getting a doctorate is expensive, and god knows the years it takes to hang that piece of paper so nicely framed on your office wall. Not to mention the humility, the shame, maybe even possible prison time like some doctors we know of today. These “Hollywood Yes Men” were nothing more than a couple of pill pushers that did Marilyn in! The fact that Arthur and Natilie Jacobs got a call at the Hollywood Bowl at 10:30pm tells me that Eunice was a lier and caved in to the Doctors orders! Marilyn was discovered long before 12 midnight Eunice, and we all know it.
i think you cannot accept she died from overdosing on those pills..which she had almost done before….noone killed her…she pushed her body to the max with those pills and this time she didnt wake up…accept it and move on
gary your right about no one killing her…also remember the bust signal stops after sometime and the phone might have been muted under the covers….she basically died totally knocked out with the sleeping pills….sort of like michael jackson
Ummm, didn’t Dr. Conrad Murray “sort of” kill Michael Jackson? Without doubt, Dr. Greenson was MM’s version of MJ’s Dr. Murray. There’s more to MM’s death than any of us will ever know.
I do not recall in MJ’s autopsy report that he ingested any nembutal or chloral hydrate, MJ died as a result of “propofal” and actually had a Dr. present(if you want to call him that) but MM had 2 dr’s giving her what she wanted and Alan do not forget about MM hanging with the Kennedy’s and saying she was going to have a press conference, there were friends of hers that confirmed this, Jeanne Lemay among them, and there is the angle of her alleged suicide, argue all you want, L.A. is corrupt, look at RFK’s shooting, 45 years later, nobody can actually say how many shots were fired
At this stage, we can all speculate on the theories, but none of us know for sure. That’s why the Marilyn Monroe mystique lives on…there’s so many twists and turns.
MJ didn’t ingest nembutal or chloral hydrate, he was going to sleep via propofal injections, but he had Dr. Conrad on payroll…a “licensed” drug dealer, giving him what he wanted, at a price…and in the end, “the price” was his life!
Marilyn had slight lividity on her back, a tell, tell sign that she was lying on her back at some point in time. (Why didn’t anyone acknowledged this back then and start asking questions) I believe the lividity is there because the doctors removed her from the bed, layed her on the floor for a short period of time while the sheets were removed and the vomit cleaned up. Or they laid her on her back to try and resusitate her. Whatever it was, the lividity is solid proof that she was moved at some point in time. She was on the phone with Peter slipping away, the phone could have been anywhere before she was moved. I’m thinking close to her ear. The reason she is laid out so straight on the bed, arms to her side, is most likely because rigamortous was already setting in when they moved her back onto the bed. And, who wants to be playing around with a dead corpse so much as to be digging around for a phone. Whats up with her stringy, natty, wet looking hair in
the photo of her lying dead on the bed. Looks like she took a shower or something. Maybe there was vomit in her hair and that was cleaned up too.
Those busy signals from those old Bell phones back in the day were very loud. For those of us who are a little older, don’t you remember when someone left the phone off the hook in the house, that busy signal was fricken annoying as hell, and someone would always yell, “who left the phone off the hook.” And, the very fact that Mr. and Mrs. Arthur Jacobs were interupted by a Hollywood Bowl employee with a message concerning Marilyn Monroe while watching a show around 10:30pm, then immediately
leaving, Arthur dropping his wife Natalie off at their house, then high tailing it over to Marilyn’s house is solid proof that Eunice Murray was lying when she told the police that she discovered the phone and light under her bedroom door at 3pm then changing it to 12 midnight. Is Natalie still alive? If Marilyn committed suicide then why all this trouble cleaning everything up by the doctors, Eunice, Arthur the studio publicist and Micey Rudin the attorney who is now thinking he may have to protect their asses in court.
My apologies, I was not implying that MJ took Nembutal or Chlorohydrate.
Funny thing, if you visit the Westwood Cemetary where Marilyn is entombed, Mickey Rudin, her attorney was recently buried straight across from her. If you stand on his grave in front of his marker you can look across the cemetary and view Marilyn’s marker.(directly north and south)..
Pretty freaky!
Thanks for your insight, Gary. This topic has received the most comments of any topic I’ve ever posted…goes to show how many opinions there are on the final hours leading up to, and shortly after, Marilyn’s death. It’s great to be able to lay all the facts out, at least the ones we know of, and analyze them. I will have a check around and see if Natalie is still alive.
According to the IMDB, Natalie is still alive. She was born in 1940. I will try and track her down. Thanks for the tip 😉
If you have the means to locate (then) Natalie Jabobs, and ask extremely specific questions regarding what she knows about the night Marilyn died, that would be incredible! I would like to meet her myself. In my opinion, she is a “STAR Witness.” She alone can discredit the housekeeper Eunice Murray’s statement when Eunice told the police she discovered Marilyn at 3pm then later changing it to 12 midnight ! Natalie new Marilyn was in trouble at 10:30pm while attending the Hollywood Bowl. (I would like to make a correction: Arthur Jabobs Natalie’s husband, was Marilyn’s agent, not studio publicist as I stated in my last post). Natalie should be on Good Morning America, Pierce Morgan show, and all the rest. And, what better timing, the 50th anniversary of her death. I can’t understand why, after all these years, she hasn’t come forth and pressed this issue. We’ve read about her account in various Marilyn books, why havn’t any of these authors, investigators etc make light of this very important piece of the puzzle. If Eunice lied, lied, lied, then so did everyone else that night. This very fact, I believe, is enough to start a new independent investigation, along with the questioning of Pat Newcomb and whomever else is still alive. If what Natalie is saying is true, then a cover up is exactly what happened. The doctors thought they had all their ducks in a row, but forgot one important piece. The police were asking Eunice lots of questions, she was nervous, shaking, distraught, prepared, but not quite prepared enough. “So Mrs. Murray,” the policeman asked, “what time was it that you knocked on Marilyn’s door,” the policeman pressed on, “3pm officer, gosh wait a minute,” thinking to herself, “what are the others going to say to the police, O.K,, now I’m not sure, what was that Dr. Greenson, O.K. maybe it was 12midnight.” Whatever it was, it wasn’t 10pm or 10:30 as Natalie has stated. I believe the doctors had tried everything they could to try an save Marilyn’s life that night. But, why the cover up? Why the lies? Why did they have to move the body? Did they all think they could tell the same lies. Sturdy studies like doctors, attorneys, hollywood agents, maybe, but not little old ladies that keep house, and pretend to be nurses, taking directions from hollywood pill pushers. Why couldn’t they just have said, guys we’ve done everthing we can, she’s committed suicide, this is horrible, “someone call the police, call the ambulance, get someone over hear now!” Not wait till 4:30am point to a table full of pill bottles and say, “she must have taken all of these.”
Well, this has been an interesting read!! Thanks to you all and I’ll look forward to more!!
Thanks, Becky. Glad you enjoyed our conversation 🙂
Just now saw this comment. In re: Natalie. She has done interview(s). In one, I think it was with Geraldo, (not sure) she admitted that Arthur ‘fudged’ the time when giving his statement as to what happened. I think this interview had a panel of people and it coincided with an anniversary of her death, but it has been a long time ago. I do remember her using the word ‘fudged’.
So sad the contraversy over her death, I always want to remember and mourn for the tragic loss of such a young, beautiful, talented woman. Though I think in death isnt the best way to mourn or remember a life. When I pass I want to have a celebration of not how i died but of how I lived. As for this tragedy Marilyn and those who lived along with her take the secrets of the truth behind this matter to the grave with them. As fans we will never really know the truth of this and after 50 years if those who know havent spoken up now in regaurds to this they more than likely never will. August 5, 1962 a day marked in tragedy, a sadness swept her fans, friends and loved ones as they woke to the tragic news. Aside from her contraversal photos and her block buster films Marilyn’s memorie is reduced to conspiricy and instead of speaking of her intelligence, wit, beauty or even her charm shes remembered for her death and not the things that mattered most. I am very respectful of all who have posted because a lot of these things i didnt know and i appriciate knowledge. I just feel that she should be remembered for the good in her life as well as the bad. Yes i am aware im commenting on a post about Her Autopsy, i just felt the need to bring to everyones attention she was a beloved icon and a woman made of flesh, blood and bones as we all are and her memorie should be treated with the same respect we would expect in our own passing.
Hi Krista,
Thanks so much for taking the time to write such an extensive comment.
Marilyn’s death will always be a major part of her life. It’s unfortunate, but it’s a fact. I’m not sure if you’ve ever ready any of my books? If not, it’s important for me to say that I always treat my subjects with respect and dignity. I don’t write lies and I don’t look to the scandal to spin myself a bigger bank account. In fact, I often dispel myths that have survived for decades – lies that have somehow become truth. I spend at least a year researching my subjects before I even start writing. Often, there are conflicting stories and it’s my job to search for the common thread in a massive pile of information. With Marilyn, there are so many conflicting stories, it’s rare to find a common thread. The last couple of days of her life were very sketchy, but only because the people who associated with her during those last 48 hours were very careful about what they did and said. The years since have seen many of those people pass away. The truth has been taken to the grave…
Safe to say, we’ll never know the truth, and that’s the main reason why we play armchair detective and speculate. Marilyn Monroe committing suicide was possible, but it wasn’t probable, given the evidence we DO have to study.
My current project is a “films of” book dedicated to Marilyn’s career. It’s nothing but respectful. Though there are many, MANY books on Marilyn Monroe in print. There isn’t a filmography-type record that details her career. She was such an underrated performer. I hope to showcase that part of her life, while also touching on her harrowing childhood and tragic end, the middle of her life was very successful. She was no victim…
Best wishes,
Michelle
You should have John contribute to your book Michelle!
Thanks for all of the intriguing information. I don’t know what it is about Marilyn Monroe that fascinates me. I am drawn to her like an addiction. Whenever her movies are on t.v. I have to watch them. Whenever she is on the cover of some magazine paying tribute to her I have to purchase it. When I was in high school I did a report on her. She fascinates me in such a way that I wish I could be her reincarnated. Crazy, isn’t it?
Crazy? Not really…that’s why she’s still so relevant and talked about today. You’re not the only one! 🙂
I was at Pierce Brothers Westwood Village Memorial Park today for the 50th anniversary of Marilyn’s death.
The entire day was a wonderful tribute to her.
I made a video of the event.
George Vreeland Hill
Thank you so much for allowing us to see your video, George. Very generous of you to share that here on my blog. I’m honored! Looks like a very large crowd at the cemetery, and wonderful weather for the occasion, too. Feel free to post your videos whenever you may have something else to share that relates to Marilyn Monroe or old Hollywood. Thanks again 🙂
Wow !!! I m totally blow away by what I have read here, I wasnt born when she dies nor have I really heard much about it till now, some crazy stuff I was looking at all the pictures 1st and was thinking some of the same things you all are saying as I looked at the pictures, I thought that can’t be right, or that doesnt look right. Just like Bob Crane’s beating death or JFK shooting We can only guess what happen to them. I hope the truth comes out one day and the can REST IN PEACE… and who ever was part of this all comes forward.
Wasn”t someone finally prosecuted for Bob Crane’s death. I seem to remember there was.
Wooowww… all I did was click on a link in my Yahoo mail page, and it led to links and photos of Marilyn, in her life and in her death as well, and then to this really really interesting conversation.
I’m a Filipino in Manila, and I think it’s a reflection of the effect Marilyn has on us all that even if I’m not an American and certainly didn’t grow up during Marilyn’s time, I’ve always been a fan of her’s and have always been fascinated by her, by both her beauty and her life. I distinctly remember watching a documentary film on TV in the 80s when I was in my early teens, and how I stayed riveted to the screen. I remember my heart melting as I watched her walk across my TV screen, and thinking that with all the beauties in Hollywood back then, none of them could match her.
More than 25 years later, looking at all the beauties in Hollywood today, my opinion still hasn’t changed.
Another memory I have of that documentary film is Elton John’s song, Candle in The Wind, which was its theme song. I also remember feeling overwhelmed by grief that an actress that beautiful had all too short a career, and that she had to die that way. I love you, Norma Jean, I always will be in love with you.
Michelle, please contact me at email below. I would like to tell you some info I have not shared public for over 30 years. Thanks
No e-mail attached, and clicking on your name gave me an e-mail addy that bounced back 😦 Contact me at – mvozus@gmail.com
I’ve never seen it addressed, and maybe they’re old injuries, but I don’t remember hearing about Marilyn being a klutz or having accidents enough to account for Noguchi’s autopsy findings of her Skeletomuscular system: The clavicle, ribs, vertebrae and pelvic bones show fracture lines. All bones of the extremities are examined by palpation showing no evidence of fracture. So… Are they new fractures? If so, she was roughed up pretty bad.
If you re-read the report (the last page #6), you’ll see it says “clavicle, ribs, vertabrae and plevic bones show NO fracture lines”
That’s what I thought the first couple times I read it. My mind just kinda skipped over the fact that the sentence ends after stating those bones were fractured. I quoted as it was written: Skeletomuscular system: The clavicle, ribs, vertebrae and pelvic bones show fracture lines.
All bones of the extremities are examined by palpation showing no evidence of fracture.
I agree. To me, that is one of the most shocking and relevant “clues” the autopsy (altered or not) had to offer — which on most discussion sights continues to be overlooked and not discussed! Why would Marilyn’s clavicle, ribs, vertebrae and pelvic bones all show fracture lines? It could be because she had low bone density caused by so much alcohol and drug use, or maybe her body was moved around a lot during the incident/murder/suicide.
Here are a few other possibilities:
1.) They may have moved her body to a tub or shower to administer the enema, (or to try to clean her up, or even to revive her.)
2.) She may have been really messed up and fell, but then the extremities would brobably be bruised or fractured.
3.) Holding a person down against their will could also cause trauma to the clavicle, ribs, pelvis, and spine.
One thing we do know though is that Joe Dimaggio Jr. said she sounded coherent when they spoke at 7PM. At some point she made a phone call to someone (even the police or hospital) that someone did not want made public knowledge — hence the phone records go “missing.”
Hi, I think you may have missed the correction I made to the other person’s post about the fractures. In the autopsy report on PAGE 6, the last page which is also the one Noguchi signed, it states the following:
***clavicle, ribs, vertebrae and pelvic bones show NO fracture lines***
There were NO FRACTURES or signs of trauma. So there is no reason to decipher how any fracture might have gotten there.
What I will tell you guys is it’s more incriminating that there ARE NO signs of fractures or blunt trauma (as there was in the Michael Jackson autopsy). His chest was black and blue and I believe one or more of his ribs were broken. That was from the violent CPR they tried to revive him.
When we read in Norma Jeane’s autopsy that there were no signs of trauma or fracture, we can BE CERTAIN no one tried CPR. And of course they wouldn’t since it was Ralph Greenson’s (and other’s) objective that she die. Trying to save her at all costs WAS NOT the objective.
In addition, some here may have heard the story by so-called paramedic, James Hall, that he responded to a distress call at Norma Jeane’s house that night of the 4th. In his claim, he stated he and his partner arrived, found Norma Jeane still alive but comatose, and they began CPR and then put her on a breathing apparatus. He claimed they had her saved, but then a man whom he identified as Dr. Greenson, stepped in and plunged a needle into her chest, effectively killing her. In his account, he also mentioned that Greenson in a first attempt at inserting the needle, missed the mark and it went into a rib and as Hall put it, “I heard the rib crack.”
Now, we already know that Hall was paid to tell his false story, so it’s no revelation. But if we didn’t and just to put a final/final on his lie, this little passage on page 6 of the autopsy report unequivocally refutes his story 200%++. No fractures, no cracks, end of lie via hard facts.
Greenson DID kill Norma Jeane, jsut not quite that way.
Have love for Norma Jeane. She didn’t deserve her fate. Tomorrow will be the funeral.
Liquidsky9 I thank you for READING the autopsy note regarding the fracture issue, as far as paramedics allowing a Dr. to kill their patient is absurd, first of all, Greenson would need a needle the diamater of a garden hose to crack a rib, in this scenario, worst that could happen is, hit the rib, needle gets bent, second of all, if she was still in fact alive while he was doing this, the needle mark would show up during the autopsy and if he doesnt properly know where to place the needle, I would not want him as my Dr.
Mary, the autopsy did not state her various bones were fractured, every human being (above age 20) have fracture lines, this is from while we were adolescents we had growth plates, when the bones finished growing, they leave a marked line in the particular bone, say your skull, you have what they call “suture lines” I have seen thousands of these during autopsy’s
John,
Yes, as I mentioned in my response, the James Hall story was long-debunked and doesn’t even require relying upon this passage in the autopsy to know he was paid to lie (as many others like Jeanne Carmen, Officer Lynn Franklin, probably Peter Lawford, Mickey Rudin, Milton Ebbins, Lionel Granderson, and just a host of others were also). There was much “blood-money” involved in this one.
So, I only brought up the cracked rib story to let others know it’s completely false. Greenson killed Norma Jeane alright, just not that way. cheers
@ John, I would like to know if you’re reading an autopsy that has an attached note that is not in the various ones I have seen online; one which goes into further detail and/or calls common suture lines (which should never even be mentioned without a notation explaining WHY they are mentioning them) fracture lines instead.
@liquidsky9, your “correction” is not accurate, despite the many asterisks. Skeletomuscular system: The clavicle, ribs, vertebrae and pelvic bones SHOW FRACTURE LINES.
All bones of the extremities are examined by palpation showing NO EVIDENCE OF FRACTURE.
It does NOT state there are no fractures of anything but the extremities, as in, the limbs.
Anji,
Umm. No. See here, that I posted esp for you and which also is printed verbatim in several of my books.
http://twitter.com/#!/liquidsky9/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2F6bOw5xL6
Could you be using this unreliable and erroneous retyped TRANSCRIPTION?
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/celebrity/marilyn_monroe/autopsy.html
If you have other evidence to refute me, do post so I can see it. thx
@liquidsky9 – Sorry, but I don’t consider crimelibrary.com or any of the other places online it can be found, any less reliable than somebody’s personal (Twitter-posted, lol) anonymous, unverifiable “photo”. You’ve posted a lot of information here and while fascinating, you do not say how you are privy to it or why anyone should definitely believe this information is accurate.
Anji,
Haha, yes I guess why should you believe a document that is clearly type-written from the era, correctly dated and signed by Noguchi himself (and which has also been printed in books that were printed before there even WAS an “internet”) as opposed to something you found transcribed and typed online. Surely mine MUST be wrong and a forgery.. wow. lmao
Your illogical response is why folks like me have so much work to do cleaning up all the mis-information that has spread like wildfire. No offense to you otherwise, but for Norma Jeane, you’re part of the problem. No need to respond, I’m done here. All I care about is that you (and others) have been exposed to the truth. What you do with it is entirely up to you. I’m not here to make friends – I’m here to spread THE TRUTH. If you want to keep your head buried in the sand and continue to spread false information – again, your choice. cheers
@ @liquidsky9 Seriously? I could reproduce that with very little effort, as could millions who are online at any given time. Inch splotches, aged-looking paper, old typeset – no problem. As I am sure you are well aware. So in the end, your “proof” is no better than any found elsewhere. No raised seal to verify it’s an official document.. Which could also be faked and not to be trusted. Dang.
Guys, first a suggestion to some when responding, write in paragraphs. It makes a lengthy response much easier to read. Just sayin…
Next, some here understandably are thrown off by all the mis-information produced over the years, but also by not using the most intrinsic logic (which is a must when trying to understand what really happened to Norma Jeane).
The first example is to those who say she vomited and that’s what Eunice Murray was cleaning up. Stop and think for a minute. What was the goal here of the many different parties involved (and which LAPD unquestionably supported open and shut)? They WANTED it to look like A SUICIDE. So. If it really went down were she vomited as 99% of all suicides by barbs do, why would they clean it up? That would SEAL THE DEAL. No, sorry, there was no vomiting because she never ingested what killed her.
What IS consistent with the autopsy report of the discolored lower colon (and the only possible reason for this to have occurred), is that Norma Jeane was given a toxic enema as her fatal blow. Plain and simple and there is no other possibility. Then of course, once she lost consciousness, her body released the liquid. Now THAT is something that needs to be cleaned up because it’s undesirable for Greenson and company to have to explain why they were giving her a toxic enema.
So, no suicide, no ingestion of pills, but staged to look like both.
The next issue is the 50 years hence have too many people “accepting” what they have either read or heard as if it really happened that way. For instance, you have been told Peter Lawford first called Norma Jeane, then “worried sick” called Ebbins, who called Rudin, etc and so forth. Who says so? That wreaks of problems in the first place. Lawford was entertaining a few couples that night, his partner Ebbins and his wife were one. He invited Norma Jeane to attend but she declined when she was at his house about 4PM. It’s just another summer Saturday night for him and there should nothing for him to worry about. Him suddenly becoming so overly worried about Norma Jeane declining a party invitation raises many red flags. But again, that’s IF it really even happened. It’s more likely that story was concocted as part of the “scenario” to support the ILLUSION that Norma Jeane was acting strange that night by her own volition – enough to support that she would be SUICIDAL. Of course nothing is farther from the truth.
There is also a “liar’s” smoking gun to that whole chain in Murray anyway. According to Greenson himself to Kris later in August of 1962, it was the first time he had Murray stay overnight in that house. Normally she showed up in the morning and left at about 5 or 6PM. So on this particular night, how is it Mickey Rudin knows to “call the housekeeper (at night when normally she wouldn’t be there), because he doesn’t want to bother Greenson after his long-day with Marilyn.” See? It’s upside down and mis-directed to suck you in. Right there Mickey Rudin doesn’t realize he just f’d up by knowing more than he really would in real-time and the truth. Someone is lying and IF Rudin DID make those comments, he is lying his ass off. Again, it’s more likely it never happened and that was simply the “story” Mickey Rudin agreed to tell. All the participants had their own scripted story. Remember the only one who can corroborate any contact with Norma Jeane’s house that night in the manner it supposedly happened are the cabal themselves and only them: Rudin, Greenson, Murray, Ebbins, Lawford, Engleberg. What you really are looking at are a bunch of manufactured stories to support the “suicide” of Norma Jeane. What they say goes. The Perfect Crime that’s also protected under “doctor-patient” regulations.
Joe D Jr is really the only legit caller that evening that can be corroborated as he is a believable character, has no reason to lie, and is not part of the evil cabal that killed Norma Jeane. He also is the only one who used something like the baseball game to prove his timing. The other’s have only their agenda-driven empty words.
I’ll give you another example. Though she drastically changed her story more than once over the years, you still have come to accept the Eunice Murray telling of what happened the night of August 4th as the gospel (or even some form of it). Hmmm. Try this and think out of the box.
Why should Murray’s story be trusted AT ALL and WHATSOEVER? Frankly my friends, her story is NOT TRUE whatsoever – it’s totally manufactured. She never checked on Norma Jeane and felt everything was alright, Norma Jeane NEVER said to her at 8PM, “I’m tired I think I’ll turn in now”, she never later went outside and peered through the window pushing the curtains back with a fireplace poker, she never called Dr. Ralph Greenson – she didn’t have to call him b/c he was already there. These are all made-up stories peeps and again ZERO witnesses to corroborate them.
By his own account again to Kris, where he would tell the truth, Greenson was at Norma Jeane’s place until 7PM. This makes perfect sense timing-wise. While he was at the house from 1PM – 4PM, then again 5:30PM – 7PM after Norma Jeane and Murray returned from Lawfords (where he assumed Norma Jeane would drink alcohol and which fit into the plan), he intercepted and turned away all callers (Joe D Jr was turned away twice during that time, Ralph Roberts another one, Isadore Miller another). When Greenson left at 7PM, Joe D Jr was finally able to get through. Makes perfect logical sense. Think about it my friends, WHY IS RALPH GREENSON TURNING AWAY NORMA JEANE’S PERSONAL CALLERS? That is NOWHERE in his jurisdiction, or his decision to make. UNLESS. He is feeling the pressure of something he has to do today. Something he is forcing himself and his conscience to do because for several reasons HE HAS TO.
Now, what happened next? It’s pretty simple. What happened next is, because it was part of a premade plan, with Murray the “witness patsy” already in place for the overnight, Greenson came back at about 8PM. Don’t forget, he lived less than 1 mile from Norma Jeane on the other side of the Brentwood Country Club. He could be there by car in less than 5 minutes. Before he left at 7P, he gave her the Chloral Hydrate likely in a needle to work while he was gone establishing himself back at home with his family. Before she left with Murray to go to Lawfords at 4P, he shot her up with a decent dose of Nembutal. This is consistent with accounts she was a bit groggy at Lawfords. But that was nothing new for that crowd. There was barely one person in Hollywood that wasn’t drinking excessively, taking pills to get up or come down according to the demands of the highest levels of acting and movie-making, or both. Most both. But I digress.
By the way, if you’re now thinking you heard or read that Noguchi and Miner found NO NEEDLE MARKS at the autopsy, therefore no needles could have been used on August 4th – I have news for you. There is existing proof that Hyman Engleberg gave (at least billed for) MANY INJECTIONS throughout July and as late as both August 1st and August 3rd. Therefore the “non” findings of Noguchi and Miner are 100% un-credible.
So now after Greenson leaves at 7, his table is set. Norma Jeane has enough meds (and probably some champagne from Lawfords) in her right now to probably kill a weaker woman – and all intentionally given to her for the purposes OF killing her. That’s murder peeps. But you know Norma Jeane. Indominable, indestructible, supreme force of nature. So when Greenson comes back at about 8PM, likely she is very groggy and disoriented but fighting the overwhelming effects as she would do, and wondering WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON. Greenson tells Murray he’s come back to check on Norma Jeane because he is worried. Just as he had done most of the afternoon, Greenson is now back one on one with Norma Jeane in her room with door closed. He tells Murray she can go to her room and watch TV while he attends to Norma Jeane.
What many peeps do not know is there was another drug prescribed by Engleberg and filled on August 3rd. The bottle was on the table. It’s called Phenergan. It was dismissed as an anit-histamine by LAPD, but the prescription says boldly FOR SLEEP. Another researcher did some background of this drug and together with Chloral and Nembutal, it’s a recipe for a serious breathing depression/cessation (Michael Jackson style on the Propofal). There is proof of the script written by Engleberg (uncovered by the same researcher) and there is a corresponding charge for it on the San Vicente drug store receipt submitted to the estate after death. I do not have proof of the account that one pill was missing from the bottle after death. But it makes perfect sense.
Dr. Ralph Greenson has come back to finish the job he started at about 3PM by injecting Norma Jeane with Nembutal. Then further sedating her at 7PM with an injection of Chloral . Now he will administer the death blow with an enema cocktail of all three combined (adding in one 25mg Phenergan) and this is what will (and could only) cause the discolored colon. He tells her he’s going to give her an enema to help her sleep for the night and that she should call him when she wakes up and they will talk.
What was Greenson doing all day with Norma Jeane behind closed doors? That’s an easy one. First, she notified Greenson that she has asked Eunice Murray not to come back in September when she returns from her trip to Europe (something Murray only told her about on Wed Aug 1). Norma Jeane was planning to be in NY most of September as she had many dates booked anyway. Interviews with Vogue, several fund-raising parties and to be honest folks, she now enjoys New York over Los Angeles anyway. This was the perfect time to sever the tie with a woman she did not like (and that her friends did not like). Though she bought the Fifth-Helena house (at Greenson’s urging), she planned on keeping her NY apt for herself and Joe for after they were to be remarried on August 8th.
So with Murray springing a trip to Europe on her Wednesday, Norma Jeane seized the opportunity to do something she had been wanting to do for a while. Send Murray packing. Which she did. Murray’s last day was Saturday August 4th. Why was Ralph Greenson so manic and pissed off all day on Saturday as he kept Norma Jeane hostage in her bedroom? Simple. He was trying to talk her out of ALSO giving HIM the heave-ho, which she did also.
That’s right peeps. Don’t believe the CRAP that Norma Jeane was despondent, depressed, inconsolable, suicidal. She was the opposite. She just this week re-signed a new contract with Fox for 2.5 times her old salary and which also added more films. Technically who would be depressed about that? No one is the answer (don’t even give it another brain cell). This contract was bogus from Fox and one they never intended to honor but that’s another story for another time. But further, she and Joe D were planning to remarry on August 8th. She also felt she for the first time was getting real control over her life – this is documented. So what’s not to be happy about? Don’t believe any other account.
Her problem is she feels bad about having to let Greenson go because she is that way. She feels like he was “there” for her over the past 1.5 years. Unfortunately she doesn’t realize he is just a deranged, power-addicted user, but she still feels badly that she and Joe will now be a team again, they will split time between New York and Los Angeles and she wants to get back to making her own decisions and running her own life. She wants a family with Joe and there is no further need for Greenson. Greenson should be happy as a clam for her. Instead, he’s insulted that his star client, the one who has made him famous (just as she did for the other master-user Lee Strasberg), is leaving him flat, and how will he explain that to his peers? In fact he’s more than insulted, he’s livid and affronted.
What is he doing today, Saturday August 4th with this intensive closed-door contact with Norma Jeane? Simple. He is telling her off for the last time as he knows it’s her last day on earth – and he has plenty to say before the day is done as he slowly puts the nails in her coffin. With the plan already decided upon and in motion, he wants her to admit to him how grateful she is for all he’s done for her while likely he attacks and slams her self-esteem, telling her for hours she is nothing without him like the arrogant pompous-ass he was.
I will stop here for now. I am planning more of this kind of deciphering of the truth on my blog sometime soon if you care to read on. In the meantime you can follow me on twitter @liquidsky9 to know when my blog entry is posted on this matter.
Also in the meantime, have nothing but love for Norma Jeane. She deserves it and she earned it.
What a fantastic deciphering of facts! Thanks for posting this very interesting read. I’ll reach you on Twitter.
thx. I also wanted to mention to your readers that peeps should also forget about the nonsense about the Kennedy brothers and Marilyn. I will get into this in full detail soon on my own blog but for now, there was NO affair between she and Bobby and he was NOT in Los Angeles Saturday August 4, 1962. Neither Kennedy had anything to do with Norma Jeane’s death.
Bobby WAS in Los Angeles on Thursday, July 26, giving a speech. Proof of this can be found on the Department of Justice website . So IF, he had anything to say to Norma Jeane even remotely resembling the wild accusations of mis-information (much of which was planted by FBI and haters like Walter Winchell), he would have said it that week before when he was in town. He certainly wouldn’t have interrupted what was a rare get-away weekend with his wife and children in Gilroy. Norma Jeane became a friend of Pat Kennedy Lawford (the brother’s sister and Peter Lawford’s wife), and therefore she also became a friend of the Kennedy family. Pat Kennedy was in the film biz trying to become a notable film producer or movie executive – so it would be natural for her and Norma Jeane to hit it off, which they did. Also, Norma Jeane was NOT just some woman nobody ever heard of. She was the most famous woman in the world. The Kennedy’s were all about stature and having friends in high places and who had extreme accomplishment. Norma Jeane fit their demo and she was welcomed into their circle. It DOESN’T mean she was screwing every Kennedy that moved as the FBI, mob, and the salacious media wanted the public to believe.
Once the peeps who hated the Kennedy brothers found out Norma Jeane was spending time at the Lawfords (as she was friends with Peter first through Frank Sinatra), out came the planted rumors. It’s probable if Jackie had any problem with Norma Jeane, it was because she herself got sucked into the rumor mill. Many did.
But none of the Kennedy’s had anything to do with Norma Jeane’s murder. There is a possibility they may have been distancing themselves a bit from her that summer for one main reason. That was their brother Ted Kennedy, had his first senatorial election primary in September 1962, and then the general election that November. The intention was Ted would take over JFK’s former seat that he vacated when he was elected president. Unfortunately, when JFK was elected in 1960, Ted was still too young to take the seat. 1962 was when he could, but with no appointment available anymore, there had to be a special election. So Ted ran and won. Suffice it to say, that summer of 1962 especially, ALL the Kennedy’s had to play it very cool so not to derail Ted. That’s partially why the family was essentially non-verbal and transparent on the news of Norma Jeane’s death. They had no choice really since all the false rumors and mis-information about Bobby and her were already swirling.
But as Norma Jeane started spending more time at Lawford’s place in 1962, esp when the brothers were also there visiting their sister, and as they got wind of Hoover’s FBI was spying on her and them and media spinning lies, it would be natural for them to pull back some with her – given Ted’s impending election and also JFK’s upcoming re-election. They also eventually found out Norma Jeane was still friendly with Sinatra, whom they already broke ties with in March of 1962 because of his still-close affiliations with Giancana, Gambino and the mob in general. That was also a problem for them I’m sure where Norma Jeane was concerned. It’s highly likely she didn’t understand why they were pulling back and was confused by it. But a simple explanation as to why using real facts.
Most of the rumors of Marilyn Monroe and the Kennedys were false. Certainly the most salacious of them. Dorothy Kilgallen and Norma Jeane had been friendly toward one another as they were both maverick women. Unfortunately it was Dorothy who got sucked up by either the FBI or the mob and fell for a tip she received from a plant about Bobby and Marilyn. She broke the story on August 3rd and no doubt regretted doing that to Norma Jeane once she figured out she’d been had. This was no coincidence in timing as Norma Jeane had only one day left to live. After she was gone then, the FBI and mob began pouncing with the Bobby Kennedy sighting rumors on August 4th. It was all part of the same multi-objective plan. They had already known Bobby was due to give a speech in San Fran on August 6th (which he did) and that he would vacation with his family those two days before (which they did).
That was all they needed. Bobby close by in San Fran and close enough to concoct the story about him flying in to see Marilyn. Pure rubbish. There are plenty of people in LA who say they saw him on that day, but not one credible witness. If he was coming in on some clandestine mission with Marilyn, why exactly would he check in at the Beverly Hilton Hotel? The wildest was the cop Lyn Franklin who said he stopped Peter Lawford driving 70 mph on Olympic Blvd (with no headlights on) at 1AM the morning of August 5th and who Franklin said also had Greenson and Bobby Kennedy in the car with him. Franklin “reported” Lawford said he was driving Bobby to the Beverly Hilton to get his things and check out…what? What things? The bogus report was Bobby ostensibly did a simple either private jet or helicopter jaunt to LA from San Fran (a 45min trip at best as I’ve done it), and had to be back over night to make Sunday morning church – where he WAS sighted for real. IF Bobby did the trip (which he didn’t), he wouldn’t have any “things” and he certainly wouldn’t have checked into the Beverly Hilton. Simple. Total fabrication and lies.
At 1AM August 5th, Greenson was NOT in Lawford’s car, he was back at Norma Jeane’s place with her dead in her bed, freaking out and in disbelief he just murdered someone (esp so famous), staging the scene (incl breaking the window payne) and rehearsing everyone’s story over and over (esp Murray) before he and Engleberg would finally call the police at 4:25AM. Then it was Showtime.
More to come.
Have love for Norma Jeane peeps. She didn’t deserve her fate.
I don’t mean to be rude to liquidsky9 but I agree with Anji and because liquidsky9 doesn’t want peolpe to reply says to me that they are arragant and don’t want to know all of the information wether it be true or not. it’s there way or no way by the looks of it. Sure don’t get me wrong your theories are interesting but you were not there you are making a decision based on what you want it to be and what YOU interpret things to mean. As I have said before no one in this life will know the truth the only ones who do where the ones involved….I love marilyn and of course I would love to know what actually happened but your arrogance turns people of, it is a no wonder there are so many different therories with your type out there……oh and by the way your links to your site are not working but in reading your comments further down this blog I am no longer interested in reading what you have to say as I think it is not open but closed minded…
Okay i can agree that Greenson and Eunice were not being entirely honest about their activities on this day, i also believe that Marilyn was trying to let both of them go because Pat her agent had sensed that Greenson had to much control over Marilyn’s life, but if Greenson was trying to get Marilyn to stay in her bedroom where was Pat when this was happening? She was also at the house at the time when Greenson had visited Marilyn, wouldn’t she had been alarmed that something wasn’t quite right with them being in her bedroom all of that time? even if Marilyn was at this time drugged up she was still able walk around how would she not be heard trying to get out of the bedroom or asking for help while Pat was still around probably in the next room, pat had left at 6pm why didn’t she think it was necessary to mention this to the police the day after?
On page five of the official autopsy report regarding the digestive system of Marilyn Monroe it states: “Fecal content is light brown and formed.” Meaning she had a stool in her colon. The stool would have been flushed out if Eunice or the doctor gave her an enema, correct? You have to read the original report, some autopsy reports published on various web sites delete this very important fact. Interestlingly enough!
If she ingested the pills orally, then the Nembutal and Chlorohydrate would have metabilized to her Kidneys. If the drugs were introduced by enema, then the drugs would not have traveled to her kidneys.
Problem is, the kidney’s went missing after the autopsy, and the toxicologist
walked! The stomach was empty and no crystals were found. Any doctor
who knows anything about this kind of thing would have immediately ordered an investigation once he found the stomach empty of any pills, residue etc. They could have figured out right then and there if she commited suicide by oral ingestion. What the hell were they thinking!
This was Marilyn Monroe for God sakes, who the hell incinerates or takes the organs of Marilyn Monroe when there is an investigation going on?
Hi Gary,
A very valid point you make, about the enema theory, Fecal matter was found, but it did not state where in the colon, it could’ve been in the upper duodem, and the enema would not have made it that far, in order for the meds to work, they usually go as far as the large intestine, it holds more volume and the amount of the enema would not have to be that large in volume, just enough to keep it in her, say a half hour to an hour, but one thing the autopsy did not reveal, there was no fecal matter in her large intestine only the discoloration, I am sure Dr. Noguchi had his suspicions, no pill residue in the lining of the throat or any substanstial stomach contents, but at the time he was not the chief medical examiner so he had to follow orders, and it is not uncommon for the forenscic Dr’s to keep all the organs for further testing, then they can say “Ooooops we misplaced them” and if they do not lose them, they will further test and then incinnerate them, not an uncommon occurence even by todays standards.
Gary,
Yes, I am familiar with the entire autopsy (and the correct one). A few things.
First, unfortunately, our “good” (hmmm) doctor Noguchi didn’t bother to differentiate the areas of the colon. The colon is 5 – 7 FEET long. There is an ascending (right-side of the body heading upward), then a transverse section that parallels the stomach across the abdomen, then the descending portion heading down the left side of the body then turning parallel again feeding into the rectum.
Digestion goes into the ascending first, across the transverse then down the descending. All along that route, the stool begins forming little by little as the water is extracted out of what comes from the small intestine. It obviously would have been nice if Noguchi would have delivered explanation of all parts of the colon. But for the sake of argument let’s just even for now just disregard both the ascending and transverse section and focus on the descending (where the stool would be the most formed of al three sections).
In this parameter focus of the descending colon, again Noguchi doesn’t give any specifics as to “where” in the chain he observed “brownish color and formed”. By the time digestive matter reaches the top of the descending colon, it can be in the state as described by Noguchi. I somewhat focus on the words “light brown”. I notice he didn’t use the word BROWN. Him using “LIGHT BROWN” seems to indicate to me that the material he observed still was somewhat translucent (or still containing a higher percentage water content), which would indicate to me he was might have been looking higher up the descending colon section – though we’ll never know unless he can clarify that. He IS still alive and apparently has been interviewed for a book due out by its author Keya Morgan. Whether or not in his interview this type of detail and minutiae that we’re discussing was discussed by them, I cannot say at this time. I do have contact with Keya so maybe I could ask him.
The overall issue with Noguchi however is he is old and it’s questionable even if asked, if he could recall (or would be willing to admit) what exactly he examined and where he saw it. But for now, let’s discuss length of the descending colon section only and leave the ascending and transverse alone since they are more preliminary in the tract order.
The full left side colon to the anus (aka the splenic flexure, aka the full descending colon section) is about 72 cm. From highest point to lowest in the section, the breakdown is:
Descending colon: 15 cm, Sigmoid colon: 40 cm, Rectum: 12 cm, Anal canal: 5 cm. Where 1cm = a few ticks less than ½ inch.
As you can see the lowest part of the left side colon is ~57cm or ~26in. That’s well over 2 feet. By the time the waste hits the Sigmoid section, it has become at least “formed” and would be at least “light brown” in color to some degree – which therefore leaves a full 2 feet plus of examination area and a “finding” to the effect of Noguchi’s in question (which is quite long in my opinion).
Noguchi was never thorough enough to give us specifics. However what he did give us was this from PAGE 5 (and exactly as written in the same order from the report):
***The colon shows marked congestion and purplish discoloration. The fecal contents is light brown and formed.***
So he wrote the discoloration first, then he described the fecal contents. From this, my interpretation is as follows.
When he sees the “marked congestion and purplish discoloration”, he can only here be referring to the lowest most parts of the Sigmoid down to the rectum, as this is the area where the toxic enema would have inhabited (and would be consistent with the circumstances). Of the ~26 feet on which we are focused here, it’s likely the enema consumed at least ~12 inches and possibly a little more. Remember, Greenson KNEW this was a highly TOXIC cocktail and in addition the what he had already given her that day, he knew this enema didn’t have to go up that far to yield the desired results. The cocktail going in the body a foot to even 20 inches would more than suffice. And of course, when Norma Jeane went comatose and then died, and the liquid was expelled, as was much of the fecal matter with which the liquid came in contact.
And this release of liquid would remain consistent with Murray using the washing machine at 4AM. There really would be nothing else for her to be washing at that hour frankly esp knowing that her employer was lying DEAD in the her bedroom. Realistically in that situation, were there no foul play involved, a woman such as Eunice Murray would just be devastated and would do nothing until police arrived. What he have here is her being INSTRUCTED to do something UNNATURAL by Greenson.
There is however another note to be made here about enemas. If you research things like enemas and colon cleanses, you’ll see that an “at home” type of enema, doesn’t always guarantee all the fecal matter is removed. It all depends on the softness or hardness of the matter and the amount of it. There are even what are called deep power cleanses, that can’t remove all the fecal matter. It just depends.
So it’s entirely possible that even with the enema Greenson gave (and it WAS by him and NOT Murray in my opinion), there “could” have still been fecal matter left in that section of the colon with which the liquid inhabited. Suffice it to say though, if for the sake of argument one says the enema cleared all the fecal matter in the interacting section, that would still leave many feet worth of descending colon section that would ostensibly contain Nogushi’s assertion of: “fecal contents is light brown and formed.”
The KEY OBSERVATION here is the first part of his finding: marked congestion and purplish discoloration. This could ONLY have been present by something toxic that interacted with the colon FROM THE INSIDE.
To address your point about the kidneys.
First, I’m not a doctor, but my opinion is anything that goes into the bloodstream has a chance of making it to the kidneys. And there would be GOOD reason that the enema was used by Greenson. That because, anything introduced to the body through a mucous membrane is the fastest action through the entire body. So that calls out either nose, mouth, lungs, or colon. The stomach is the slowest. There is a blurb I found from wiki which says this:
***Rectal Drug Administration
An enema might be used to clean the colon of feces first to help increase the rate of absorption in rectal administration of dissolved drugs, including alcohol.
Enemas have also been used for ritual rectal drug administration such as balché, alcohol, tobacco, peyote, and other hallucinogenic drugs and entheogens, most notably by the Maya and also some other American Indian tribes. Some tribes continue the practice in the present day.
People who wish to become intoxicated faster have also been known to use an enema as a method to instill alcohol into the bloodstream, absorbed through the membranes of the colon. However, great care must be taken as to the amount of alcohol used. Only a small amount is needed as the intestine absorbs the alcohol more quickly than the stomach. Deaths have resulted due to alcohol poisoning via enema.***
However having said that, your question of who would throw away the kidneys can only be answered by: anyone who was told to with the overall intent that they could not be further examined to incriminate the guilty. I will get into this further on my blog as there is more to it than meets the eye as to WHY someone like “Marilyn Monroe’s” organs were being disposed of soon after the autopsy was completed – and it goes much deeper than just, “was it a suicide or not.” One hint is you have to understand Norma Jeane was NOT RESPECTED by the majority in her industry nor the powers that be, which could also be said to include the police, government, and medical communities since they were mostly corrupt and under the influence of someone or thing more powerful than themselves . She had some fans in these areas but very few.
To the Jewish community (who dominated her industry – and still do) and esp on the male side and according to things written in their own religious writings, Norma Jeane was just an animal, a slave, a pig. Adding in her lineage and circumstances of birth, being poor, etc.. that made it worse. Then adding in her independent nature and what she did in 1955 by breaking from Fox in a power play, she was not the most shall we say “embraced” person in town.
More another time.
Okay, first of all there is something called a rectal vault. Enemas normally only clean this part of the descending colon out, not the entire colon. Sometimes it does not even clean that out entirely. Second of all, I doubt the amount of liquid in the “toxic” enema was enough to clean anything out. I am a hospice nurse, and we give medications rectally all the time because it is more readily absorbed this route.
Also, be careful about talking about opinions and how drugs act in the bloodstream and then go to the kidneys. It may be your opinion that anything that enters the bloodstream can then go to the kidneys, but that is not true. That is a fact.
Hello i was just reading though these comments, and at the moment i am reading a really interesting book, called ‘The Assassination of Marilyn Monroe. If you haven’t already i really suggest reading it, it goes in to great detail of the events and conversations that went on in the days and hours that Marilyn died…its is very eye opening! it is from an author called Donald H, Wolfe. Really recommend it.
Devon, thx, but no thx. Don Wolfe was one of many who fell for a lot of the salacious mis-information to sell more units. I use certain bios, esp Spoto, Barris, & Badman, then also use my own extensive independent research that comes from non-commercial endeavors.
Wolfe is correct on the assassination part, juut be wary of many of his “facts”. cheers
No matter what I don’t think for a second that Marilyn decided to kill herself. She was much more stubborn and tough about life than people realize and her career was back on track. A new movie contract then many movies to decide from. I don’t think she feared ageing as much as some say-I don’t think she looked forward to it but she new it was a reality and would have reinvented her image little by little to suit the times. She was always ahead of her time anyway. Another thing I hate is that she is so closely associated with drugs yes she took pills mainly for insomnia by her own admission but so did almost every other star in those days especially. Suicide from all going on in her life doesn’t make sense. Her close friends and people who saw her in the days and weeks before all say things were better. And then the phone conversations that night I believe Joe Dimaggio Jr- Marilyn sounded fine and happy- then she dies very soon after??? I don’t know about the Peter Lawford call, in terms of what was said or not said. I do believe as the first police officer on the scene did that her body was moved. The lost autopsy results, the waiting hours to call police,housekeeper calmly doing laundry when police got there…. if she died today and there was a better investigation it would be homicide at least. Also the wiretaps in her home! That new owners found, that says something! The most annoying thing is we wont ever know for sure what went on. And you cannot accidently take all the pills she had around -Nembutal-Chloral Hydrate in her system- Then no pills found in her stomach. So much does not add up. I think unless something major is uncovered we will all be left with speculation and a few facts that are not enough to solve a fraction of the mystery. Remember Marilyn for her life and the joy she gave, the good she did. I don’t think she would firstly wish to be remembered for one terrible event, her death.
Mike,
Excellent post and the reason some of us are working hard on the details of that “one event” is to clear her name once and for all. Then she, in her entirety, can be viewed in the correct light she deserves.
So many people have spent thousands of hours trying to figure out what happen that tragic night. We the fans, the public, the world deserves an answer. We need to take comfort in knowing that all those who are still alive,
share in what they know about Marilyn and her untimely death. I had mentioned earlier in my post that Pat Newcomb, Marilyn’s publicist, and
actress Natalie Trundy Jabobs, wife of Arthur Jacobs and Marilyn’s agent. are still alive. Pat being the person who was at Marilyn’s house up until around 6pm when Dr. Ralph Greenson apparently ask her to leave the house because Marilyn was upset And, Natalie, who was at the Hollywood Bowl with Arthur and friends when they got a message that Marilyn was dead at aprox. 10:30pm. Remember Eunice Murray claimed to have discovered Marilyn, changing her story several times, to be at 12 midnight. Like in the Michael Jackson case, all witnesses were called forth in the court of law. Yes, it has been fifty years, but there is no statute of limitations concerning the death of a human being. Pat refuses to this very day to speak with anyone trying to investigate this case. The time is now to confront this women to find out what she knows. There are many, many questions that can be asked of her, and it would take someone with the intuition and openmindedness of liquidsky9 to ask them on national television. Such as in the court of law like we see today in so many high profile cases. Natalie also needs to be vented in the court of law. With an incomplete toxicology report, and missing organs, how can any doctor make claim that she commited suicide. The lack of information between Eunice Murray’s eyewitness account in her police report, and Natalie’s Hollywood bowl story, in and of itself, should at its least, make a crack in the door for a new investigation, subsequently forcing the powers that be to contact Pat Newcomb. We here, on this blog, can talk until we are blue in the face, What is it that we can do to help finalize this last chapter like so many others have tried to do.
Note: Recently, I believe its Lawrence Shiller, (please correct me on spelling of his name if wrong), the photograher that paid a visit to Marilyn the morning of August 4th, 9am, to find out if Marilyn had intended on canceling the Playboy pool scene shot he had taken of her. A $25,000 deal! As it turns out Marilyn was upset at Pat because Pat took the inititive to tell Lawrence that she did not want that shot released. Marilyn was upset because Marilyn had the final word concerning what is, and not released to the public. One reason Marilyn was upset with Pat that day.
It’s photographer Lawrence Schiller. Check out his new book “Marilyn and Me.” Also, check out his recent article in Vanity Magazine in regards to his last visit with Marilyn Saturday morning August 4th around 9am. He had a nude shot of Marilyn swimming in her last movie shoot “Somethings Got To Give” and he needed approval from Marilyn so he could release a shot to Playboy Magazine. He told Marilyn that Pat had told him over the phone that no pictures would be released to Playboy. Marilyn was very upset with Pat because Pat was not in any position to make these kinds of decisions. Marilyn told Lawrence that she would make a decision and let him know. The day after Marilyn’s death Lawrence discovered a manila envelope slipped under his door with a nude shot of Marilyn. On the back of the picture in Marilyn’s writing it said something like “Hope this picture works for you.” Could be that she dropped the picture off when she took that trip with Eunice to the beach that afternoon.
As a person suffering bipolar and insomnia for the last 19 years I can tell you that your life balances on a thin thread. There have been many times that my mood would change from ecstactic to suicidal in a matter of minutes. Adding to this delightful mixture was the fact that I existed on only a few minutes, if at all, of sleep a night. There have been several occasions that I would accidentally over-medicate myself and purposely taken two extra 12.5 mg. Ambien with an extra side order of Benedryl. Being a past offender of the “crying out for help” suicide I am educated on making your own lethal suppositories for a quieter outcome. If you ask anyone who has been on the same road you will find that I am not over exaggerating. I honestly believe that Miss Marilyn Monroe’s lifestyle finally caught up with her – whether that be suicide or homicide.
Thank you for your very open and personal post, Dorothy Jo. It’s so important to look at all the possible avenues that lead to an eventual outcome and when it comes to Marilyn Monroe, EVERYONE has an opinion. I’m thankful to everyone who has taken the time to put in their two cents here. It’s been such an interesting and informative (though sometimes heated) discussion.
I have read all the post and yes, some people became quite heated in their theories. At age 48 I just became a MM fan this year and have read 5 different books so far on her life. It is fair to say that this poor woman did have some demons, coupled with a life lived by Hollywood standards and certain personal relationships. I doubt if the world with ever know the truth in my lifetime. Marilyn Monroe will, however, be an icon for the ages. My 16 year old daughter was the one that peaked my interest in MM after she insist we do a Marilyn Monroe movie marathon.
P.S. I hope you don’t think that I am mental, I’ve just had my share of demons over the years, but with today’s medicine and the right doctors I am a “new” normal person.
I totally understand what Dorothy Jo is saying and having been through some of what Dorothy is saying, I have often wondered the same thing about Marilyn. I think the mood swings were there. Too many people in her life have talked about it. And the way (bless your hearts) some of you have it solved,so to speak, the truth is, unless we were there, we don’t know what went down on that August night. But it is addictive to try and solve it. I do the same thing in my mind all the time, but just end up going in circles. I don’t get why some people insist there were no affair(s) between her and the Kennedys. Why would it be so unbelievable? We all know JFK was a skirt chaser and MM was totally attracted to intelligent powerful men. How many people do you know who can just ring up the White House and talk to the President like it seems she did, before she was cast aside? I know people get crazy about certain subjects more than others when it comes to the mystery of the death of MM. I just don’t get those who go apeshit when this subject comes up. I don’t know about Bobby, but JFK, I believe it. This is a little off subject, but does anyone know if Marilyn’s body temperature was recorded after her death and at what time and what it was? I know a lot would depend on room temperature, etc. but I recently heard on one of those true crime investigative shows that the body drops one degree in temperature from the time of death. It has been awhile since I have seen her printed autopsy, I don’t know if it was on there or not, but what I am really talking about is if it was taken at the scene, like through the liver or however they do it. It probably wasn’t taken. But I just thought it would help (or add to) the controversy over the actual time of death.
I meant to say the body temperature drops one degree PER HOUR starting at the time of death. Sorry for the confusion. And I am not saying that is a fact, just heard it on a show where actual investigators use this data.
You’re right. Body temp. drops a certain degree per hour. Is it one? Not sure. However, it does depend on the weather and the inside or outside temp., depending where the body is located. Were these calculations used back then? Again, not sure. But, based on these calculations, it gives investigators a good indication of when the person died.
There’s a very simple answer to your question about the Kennedy’s when one digs deeper than the superficial to find the truth and it is simply this:
Norma Jeane became a FRIEND to the Kennedy FAMILY – the entire family including patriarch Joe – through JFK, Bobby and Ted’s sister PATRICIA. First off, if one does some research on the aforementioned Joe, you will see he went into the then-nascent but burgeoning silent film industry as an investor then as a studio owner in the 1920’s. First in NYC (where the film industry began), but then also out west in Hollywood when that became established as the new film mecca – as all the east coast start-up film companies opened new studios there. I won’t get into all the particulars here on Joe but you can look that up for yourself as it is truth.
So. That basically establishes a connection between the Kennedy family and the film industry on the whole. Getting back to Pat, when she finished college, her ambition was to head out to Los Angeles and make her mark in the film biz also. This would have been right around the time Norma Jeane was just starting out with Fox around 1946+. It’s also of note that Pat and Norma Jeane were essentially contemporaries as Pat was only 2 years older.
Obviously anyone can have such an ambition as Pat did, but I set up the relationship between the Kennedy family through Joe and Hollywood especially to show you that the Kennedy’s were no strangers to Hollywood well BEFORE Marilyn Monroe was even born. And in this case, one of Joe’s daughters had decided that’s where she wanted to make her mark also – which she attempted to but wound up not making much of an impact. Much had to do with her staunch catholic upbringing, which prevented her from doing unfortunately what was expected of all females who aspired in Hollywood in that era. She ultimately became a production assistant and producer on low-budget religious films. It was during this tenure that she met Peter Lawford and eventually became his wife in 1954.
The TRUTH is Norma Jeane had met Pat Kennedy and became casual/industry friends with her (or industry friendly shall we say). Pat was also known to have been somewhat introverted and a thinker like Norma Jeane was so it would be found no surprise that while they didn’t become fast close friends, they certainly shared a perspective in common. Norma Jeane also had become industry friends with Peter Lawford over that time. When Peter and Pat married, it was a natural that those friendships (to whatever extent they were) would continue and esp later on in Norma Jeane’s life into the early 60’s when Lawford became a part of Sinatra’s Rat Pack.
What most people don’t realize is it was Peter Lawford who introduced JFK to Marilyn at his and Pat’s house on the beach in 1960 after JFK was elected President – since both Lawford and Pat were friendly with Marilyn. This turned out to be a fatalistic happening for Norma Jeane because the Kennedy brothers (JFK and RFK) had been accruing very formidable enemies as senators since the later 1950’s (esp in the mob as the brothers were publicly crusading against organized crime). To fully understand what happened to Norma Jeane as well as BOTH Kennedy brothers in the 60’s, one MUST delve into the brothers’ activities c. 1957+. I will have much more on this upcoming in my own blog.
Of course Norma Jeane was completely clueless as to just how hated the Kennedy boys were becoming – it was not her nature to worry about such things anyway as she was such a kind spirit who always tried to see the good in everyone no matter what. Nevertheless, it was merely her association with the Kennedy’s that than also put HER at risk and in danger. This became exponentially true after a debacle happening in March of 1962 between the Kennedy boys and Sinatra’s group (which included the mob).
What many people also don’t realize is once Norma Jeane moved back to her home city Los Angeles in April 1961 (even back into her old apt she lived in on Doheny before she married Joe in 1954 if that tells you anything about the woman – and she still kept her and ex Arthur’s apt in NYC as well), the Lawford’s began inviting her over for dinner parties and just to hang out. She enjoyed going to the Lawford’s especially to be able to talk to Pat – one of the few she felt in which she could confide.
It was during this period where it was picked up on by very interested parties in both the FBI/CIA and mob, that Marilyn Monroe was hanging out at the Lawfords regularly and also when the Kennedy brothers would be out there as well taking a weekend here and there. What’s MOST IMPORTANT to realize about the whole situation IN TRUTH is the Kennedy brothers were MOSTLY coming out to Los Angeles for 2 reasons: 1. TO VISIT THEIR SISTER, AND 2. To get some of that California sunshine. The problem for Norma Jeane was she didn’t realize just how interested the Kennedy enemies were in what was happening at the Lawford Santa Monica house – HOWEVER INNOCUOUS IS REALLY WAS. Those enemies are the ones who turned it all salacious.
The Kennedy enemies (both gov and mob) SAY they had tapes of Marilyn having sex with JFK AT THE LAWFORD HOUSE. Really? You can best believe that’s bullshit and here’s why. First. Norma Jeane was FRIENDS WITH THE ENTIRE KENNEDY FAMILY. She especially knew Pat well enough and also knew Pat’s religious sympathies. Do you really think that little of Norma Jeane as to believe she would have the nerve or be so crass to steal off with AT HER FRIEND PAT’S HOUSE WITH HER OWN BROTHER, and have sex with him, knowing she would be betraying not only her friend Pat, but also Jackie (whom Norma Jeane saw as a role model at the time), and also the entire Kennedy clan? Do you really think that little of Norma Jeane as to believe she would put herself in that kind of predicament?
If you do, I feel bad for ya.
Just so you know, the “tapes” were said to have contained bed squeaking and female cooing but nothing else definitive (the technology was still just coming of age quality-wise). So, 1. That could have been any two people in attendance and 2. If it WAS JFK (who WAS known for having affairs), it could have also been any other “nobody” Peter Lawford had “arranged” for JFK and snuck in for that purpose. It IS storied that Lawford became somewhat of a “pimp” for JFK when JFK was out there in the west coast.
But if you know ANYTHING TRUTHFUL about Norma Jeane, you would have to know she DIDN’T crap on her friends. And the reason she didn’t was because she had a very hard time FINDING TRUE FRIENDS since everyone was out to use her and she knew it. If she found a friend she felt she could trust LIKE PATRICIA KENNEDY, the last thing she would do is be in the business of banging her friend’s brother right there in her friend’s house – ESPECIALLY when she knew full well HER FRIEND PAT was a devout Catholic – as she knew all the Kennedy’s were.
I mean, people really have to start waking up.
As for Peter Lawford. He turned out to be nothing more than an opportunist drunk, mediocre actor and celeb fame whore. When he married Pat Kennedy in 1954 his personal stock rose dramatically. When JFK ran for the White House, he became the IT BOY with very powerful groups of people including Sinatra and the mob. That’s why Lawford found a place in the Rat Pack – because of his new-found connections to the President. But being the opportunist he was, he used Marilyn as a play chip when it came to his parties and inflating his ego and stature. And especially when JFK took the White House, he used her to show the Kennedys he also had powerful friends. After all Marilyn Monroe was world-famous. Sadly, it was through Lawford’s using Marilyn for his own gains, that got her killed.
To go directly to your point about “affairs” with the Kennedy brothers. Regarding JFK, there is ONE instance where something MAY have happened between Marilyn and JFK (though there is no direct documentable evidence) – and that is the weekend of March 24 – 25, 1962, when Marilyn attended a big weekend getaway at Bing Crosby’s Palm Springs house – held in honor of both Kennedy brothers, who were both confirmed to be there as was Marilyn. Once again this weekend was arranged BY PETER LAWFORD and Marilyn was invited by him. So it’s also important to note here IF, something happened, it was NOT Marilyn pursuing a married man, it was her potentially being recruited into a situation in which she then didn’t know what to do when confronted with it. I mean really. If you are her and suddenly the President of the United States begins making advances to you – and esp a good-looking, charismatic guy as JFK – and he starts whispering sweet nothings in your ear, telling you just about anything handy, what would you do? Run away? Hell no you wouldn’t. While it’s just impossible to know exactly
what may have transpired that weekend, it is possible there may have been more than friendly contact – which could be as simple as kissing and petting, or as much as going farther than that. And if something DID happen: so what. They are both adults and that’s their business.
But otherwise, when it comes to the stories such as at the Lawford parties or the eve of the MSG event in May 1962, those are all NO. No way, No how. And yes I have logic behind all that too which I will not expound upon here.
As for RFK. In total of any story out there: ALL NO. No way, No how. First, when you have as many kids as Bobby and Ethyl had, looking for sex outside your marriage is unnecessary. Clearly they were having unprotected sex as much as they wanted and anytime they wanted. Second, the time frame of the RFK and Marilyn rumors is key. Summer 1961.
If you know anything non-superficial about Norma Jeane, you may know she was wrongly and under false pretenses admitted to Payne-Whitney Psychiatric Clinic the first week of February 1961, and was there 7 days until Joe (and ONLY JOE) came to the rescue. Everyone else she reached out to turned their backs since they had something to gain by her remaining there – which may have happened were it not for Joe. Literally, she was admitted into the nut ward – WRONGLY and with mal-intent. This of course was done by the evil cabal of people who were using her or attempting to shut her, her fame, her influence in America down. It was also done to further a stigma about her which could then be used against her later on (and was).
This hospitalization was not a secret in America. Nor was it a secret to CATHOLIC, MARRIED WITH MANY CHILDREN, Bobby Kennedy. The rumors that were fabricated were: Bobby told Marilyn he was going to leave Ethyl for her. Really? So, he would jeopardize his entire career and family life as a Kennedy for a woman who was just recently released from a mental institution? Haha. That’s a good one peeps. Those lies were set forth first by Dorothy Kilgallen – who got set-up to release the story on Aug 3, 1962 (yes the day before Norma Jeane died), and then by Norma Jeane’s acquaintance by way of being her neighbor at the Doheny Apt in 1961, Jeanne Carmen – who was forced into perpetuating the lies under coercion by the mob (she was a former business partner and friend of known west coast mob captain John Roselli) – about which before she died essentially came clean about publicly.
As for your question about having access to Bobby at the Justice Dept, or JFK in the White House. That’s kinda what happens WHEN YOU ARE A FRIEND OF A FAMILY THAT IS THE KENNEDYS. Let’s review. Norma Jeane was friendly with PATRICIA, the sister of JFK and RFK, (and her husband PETER LAWFORD). During times when Pat’s brothers were out VISITING THEIR SISTER in LA, Norma Jeane also got to have “get to know” time with both brothers. And they obviously liked and trusted Norma Jeane enough to give her private phone numbers. They also knew she was going through some tough times. They most likely said to her, a friend of their sisters, “hey, if you ever need a favor just call I’ll see what I can do.” Duh. They were the President of the United States and Attorney General of the United States. They kinda had pull.
When patriarch Joe Kennedy had his stroke, Norma Jeane sent him a letter directly, which he read and thanked her for. All told, she HAD PRIVATE ACCESS TO THE KENNDY FAMILY BECAUSE SHE WAS A FRIEND OF THE FAMILY. Did I say that loud enough? Sadly, this kind of normal and very innocuous association in any such circumstance between people in any family, turned into something very salacious and ugly by those intent on ruining the Kennedys. Norma Jeane became a mere patsy in a high stakes death game that started with her and raged on in 1963, 1964, 1965, and through RFK and MLK’s murders in 1968. In other words Norma Jeane simply became viewed as expendable in the process of bringing down the Kennedys. She was the first attempt that frankly “they” thought would work as planned. They figured they could easily trap Bobby in the set-up and get people believing the Kennedy’s, via scandal, were unworthy of their posts in government. Didn’t work and the only thing that came out of it is Norma Jeane lost her life.
The TRUTH is peeps, MANY people for different reasons WANTED THE KENNEDY’S OUT OF POWER.
With this event using Marilyn DID NOT work as planned, the next and more direct measures had to be taken – the outright assassination of JFK a little more than a year later. It’s all connected.
And it’s all very simple.
I will have much more on this and all the real truth in weeks to come on my blog http://www.theliquidsky.net
Good god almighty, your saying that MM death is assosciated with JFK’s murder,,,and by the way Bobby WAS NOT a U.S. Senator in the 1950’s, he was legal counsel on the commitees he served on, he did not become Senator Kennedy until after JFK died, dude you have a wild imagination, it is well known that both brothers had an affair with her, catholic or not, and why would’nt RFK cheat on (correct spelling) Ethel, he cheated before and after his brother died and I do not think the brothers would trust that fool Peter Lawford with their secrets.
Dorothy Jo – No, of course I don’t think you’re mental. I think it was very brave of you to bring your own issues to this message board and relate them to Marilyn Monroe’s final days. I’m really glad your daughter peaked your interest in MM. Her troubled life and mysterious death aside, she was SO underrated as an actress. Here’s hoping you continue to enjoy her life’s work 🙂
I also heard and read about Marilyn speaking to I think joe DiMaggios mother right before she died and yelling out names to her. That the mother would never tell a single soul about what she heard. Not even during her death. If someone could please clear this up for me I would really appreciate it.
dont know if it is true but that is what was said by joe’s sister or siste in law
Also I’d like to say I believe many people think because she was beautiful, had money, a dream career and everything ahead of her that there is no way she could have committed suicide, which irritates me because I do believe Marilyn aka Norma Jean had extreme mental problems, and back in those days it was hush hush especially for an actress, and doctors gave away prescriptions like they do today, I think she got her fix to get past her hurt and pain and it finally taken her in the most dramatic sad way. I honestly believe she was a hurt soul that just wanted to be free. I am a self procalimed marilyn addict and reading I could through her childhood to stardom she was haunted, and she was molested, raped and belittled and her esteem was taken down by so many men and the industry. I don’t think Marilyn wanted to die but the pills helped and eventually the mental problems and addiction to the pills took over. there is a video on youtube of her high on pills, its sad but true, she committed suicide. and speaking on the enemas (the bruising on her rectum to me was the only suspicious thing on her body after death) marilyn used enemas like water, she loved them and she was very thin before her death, I think it was just a contusion that set after death and not a bruise from someone inserting a deadly cocktail inter her right before death.
You’re way off base here…sorry.
Again this is your opinion only….you do not know exactly what happened your theories are interesting but that is all they are……
I appreciate your knowledge of Marilyn, but read the autopsy report, there was no bruising on her rectum, it was farther up in her large intestines, I do not think she had a garden hose attatched to her enema bottle, and enemas only go into the rectum area, not half way up your large intestine
john –
what do you live in a glass house ?
**would’nt RFK cheat on (correct spelling) Ethel**
wouldn’t = correct spelling lol
As for your other senatorial issue – gee thanks for the history lesson. It was a simple mistype and it’s hysterical out of all I wrote these are your call-outs. I think everyone knows JFK was the senator bud. 2 Kennedy’s have never simultaneously occupied both Mass senate seats. Besides Bobby didn’t even turn 30 (US requirement) until Nov 1955 with the term being 1952 – 58. The McClellan Committee hearings began in 1957 as I said.. But I get it, you just wanted to be a wise-guy to call me out. OK.
As to your other issues. It’s only “well-known” MM had affairs with “both brothers” to those who have been brainwashed by misinformation. I called out where a logical place for MM to have POSSIBLY had “something” with JFK in the weekend of March 24, 1962 in Palm Springs. The other “well-known’s” as you put it, are a NO due to logic and reason. If actual events defied logic, then that’s another story. Logic with enough evidence to support it, says no. And if she did engage him that March weekend, so what. I said it’s her biz.
As for RFK, I stand by NO. Once again, logic says no with a myriad of evidence behind it in contrast to yours and many others’ stock answer “it’s well-known,” because that’s your romanticized clutch and pining for MM. If you have evidence (or even logic as it pertained to a real timeline, as in times, places, months, at-the-moment-motivation) to the contrary = produce it. I at least took the time to lay out SOME of my evidence against. I will be laying out much more to come (not here of course). Your case “for” is only = “it’s well-known.” I added the correct hyphen there btw, you left yours out (since you’re such a stickler for spelling). But “It’s well-known” just doesn’t cut it for me bud.
So next you’ll tell me about the red diary and Bobby showing up to get it and struggling with MM, genius?? lmao
What bothers me the most about many of you peeps who keep insisting on absolute and multiple MM/both Kennedy brother “affairs” is how salaciously you position it AND without providing real facts behind your claims. JFK was Pres of the US and decent looking so that’s plausible for her. As I said, duh. What would you do in the same shoes, run away?
On RFK. You cannot give me a GREAT reason that holds real water why exactly MM would have any kind of sexual relations with “the little shrimp” Bobby Kennedy who already had SEVEN KIDS by 1959. Hmmm. Real appealing for Marilyn Monroe there. There is just no good logic behind it, nor any good timeline.
There is PLENTY of logic behind that he befriended MM’s plight and they at least had things to talk about. No one talks about how RFK wanted his book made into a movie in 1961. Umm. Why do you think he went to 20th? Do you think MAYBE MM offered to help support getting his book through to the right people at HER STUDIO? Duh. Hmmm. Would that be a GOOD reason for MM to have RFK’s private number? I suppose peeps here would say no way. haha
Does anybody also care that MM in spirit supported the May 1961 ‘Freedom Rides’ in which Bobby Kennedy also became directly involved as AG? That would mean he was “kinda” busy in May 1961 also. Yet it was something certainly the two had to talk about. There is plenty of logic to support a kinship between MM and RFK. There is little to nothing to support an “affair”.
Does anybody also care that MM TRIED to give JFK a gold Rolex watch after the MSG gala in May 1962 with the inscription on the back: “Jack, with love as always, from Marilyn May 29th 1962.” I said tried because she gave it to a JFK aid to give to him and JFK ostensibly rejected it. I mean duh. He’s a married man and how would it look him wearing MM’s gift? But that was MM. She was a giver of gifts to MANY people – not just JFK – and she liked to give gold pieces like watches or money clips, etc. This woman had A TON of SINCERE, natural love to give to many – and she did many times without thinking everything through. To the salacious set, it DOESN’T necessarily denote an affair either. It was a gift and she wouldn’t hesitate to use the word “love” in a way other than a sexual connotation.
As for RFK relating to this watch. So now you are what, going to tell me MM was just bouncing back and forth between RFK and JFK, banging each one and checker-boarding in 1961/62? Haha. Give me a break. The ‘LORE” says JFK “handed” MM to RFK when he was done with her. Lies. Because the same crank “authors” say the affair between RFK and MM was summer 1961. IF one were to use LOGIC and real timeline (while believing this trash), with the Bing Crosby weekend in March 1962 and the MSG gala in May 1962 with JFK (and the watch), wouldn’t it be the exact opposite?
Wake up peeps. Do you also know outside of the mis-info plants first through Dorothy KIlgallen’s Aug 3, 1962 (how convenient) blurb in her column, then the Aug 1963 “One Year Later” Photoplay article by Martha Donaldson (and reported on by Walter Wichell, friend to J Edgar Hoover), the next mention of these “affairs” was the 1970’s?
As for Lawford. He was a little nobody who rode the Kennedy coattails until his time ran out. He was a fool and a liar among other things. Sadly Marilyn trusted him as a friend and he sold her out. But that doesn’t mean for a minute he wasn’t “trusted” by the Kennedys. He was trusted enough to be handling enough things for them when it came to the west coast. And how is it do you think Frank Sinatra was chosen to be the host and entire event planner for the JFK Inaugural Gala in Washington Jan 1961? Or the brother’s 1962 Palm Springs weekend at Bing’s? Most everything like that went through Lawford as the middle-man.
A wild imagination? Hmmm. I guess you are clueless to what really goes on behind the curtain in life bud. These are advanced concepts so not for you.
All you have to do is open your eyes wider to see past what you are told to see.
Now. I was supposed to be outta here…
Hey Liquid,,,First of all, you are a very sad LITTLE man, do you have LITTLEMAN syndrome(or as MM would say “little shrimp” ha ha) ??all you do is belittle everyone who has an opinion on this subject about MM, I believe MM was a very bright and smart, sometimes maybe she did things wrong, but thats HER business, not your nor mine.
I do have knowledge liquid courage about RFK/JFK I was a very good friend of David Kennedy’s and he has told me ALOT about his Dad and the subject of MM came up, I wont waste my time telling you everything,what I will tell you, RFK and Ethel fought alot in 62 due to his “friendship” as you call it, David often told me he would run from the house in tears, because Ethel would threaten divorce and he said his Dad would end it, theres your proof you putz, straight from one of his children, where is your proof that something did NOT occur, besides RFK had enough pull to have her elimanated and I wont even mention this red diary thing, thats on you, oh and by the way, David did mention something about Herbert Hoover had the dirt on his Dad and Uncle,,,,so why dont you go have another drink and put your tail between your legs and GO AWAY you fricken freak
Hey there Mr. Liquid,,,,,seems you do not know how to be honest yourself, you are NOT sicillian you are african american, saw your date site BUD,,,so who is being honest with who, you’re a fraud, telling everybody off on this site and with your explosive evidance, you know what, keep it to yourself, you’re just a blowhard,,,good luck finding a date
John –
Ahh, now comes the outright foul attack language, I see. Who’s little? Don’t forget, you attacked me here first. So did this mod. Let the record reflect who has “little whatever you called it!” haha. And yes, that’s plenty “little” of both. btw to answer your question..no I’m not a little shrimp like Bobby. I’m 6’1″ actually.. and proud OF it. thx
My opinions are bold and they stand on their own. If you don’t like them, it worries me none. I have no problem being challenged as I can more than take care of myself but being admonished for my “tone” or “delivery” is unacceptable and it’s for babies who’s authority has apparently been threatened. Super easy to see bud. You and the mod are the self-appointed authorities here and anyone threatening that gets a beat-down. Cool. Her I get, it’s her blog.
I STAND UP for Norma Jeane and always will. Been doing it for a long time, my friend. She’s suffered from perennial negative SPECULATION based on lies long enough.
Tail between my legs? Once attacked, I only become stronger. If you want me to “go away” stop responding to me. Let’s see if you can help yourself. Or just have the mod delete my posts!
I have only given my opinion here as I see it and have never called anyone a derogatory name in the process. I challenge, I question, I tell people to wake up for a reason. The mod and you started the attacks. Own it.
Now, as for your info. At least you provided something other than “well-known.” But sorry, I’m not buying it.
Well, first… HERBERT HOOVER? If you mean J Edgar, I don’t need a history lesson on him. I have researched his foul-ass activities up and down. They didn’t call him, The Director, for nothing. As in der Führer (The Leader). Hoover (J Edgar that is) was the American Hitler. He had dirt on EVERYONE. Not just the Kennedy’s bud. And he worked in all the same ways Hitler did, using misinformation and blackmail to get what he wanted. During his long tenure it can be said HE was the one running the country, esp at the height of his powers. With him as Director of the FBI, that’s why MM’s file cannot be trusted one iota. It’s filled with many lies. He hated the Kennedy’s and they hated him. They planned on removing him eventually. Ooops, but JFK was murdered. How convenient. As a gay man, he also hated Marilyn Monroe with a passion. He certainly hated her popularity and influence she commanded as a woman. Hoover hated most women, blacks or anyone who challenged his authority or control over America. He was maybe THE most crooked and racist piece of shit American ever. Yes, he was complicit in the murder of Marilyn Monroe also. And the Kennedy’s. And Dorothy Kilgallen. And Martin Luther King. And Mary Pinchot-Meyer. Etc, etc, etc.
On to your evidence regarding RFK. Becasue you have been so affronting towards me, normally I’d rip you a new asshole about this kind of evidence. But given I am a nice guy, there is a sensitive nature to it, and out of respect to David Kennedy and his troubles, I will forego that and just make my points. I’ve known a little of David’s story and he suffered a major trauma June 4/5, 1968 (his father’s murder and him almost drowning earlier that same day) that affected the rest of his life. Sadly he turned to drugs and alcohol and died very young.
First, David Kennedy was born June 1955. That would put him all of 6 years old in 1961 and just turning 7 the summer of 1962. All due respect to David even if he was there, I can hardly accept his accountings of Marilyn Monroe and his father’s relationship to her, given he was 6 years old. I mean really bro. Are you serious? He wouldn’t have had any clue who Marilyn was at 6 nor anything related to her – including his own father. “End it” could have meant anybody. He certainly could understand and remember the yelling and screaming in the house, but as to the people in question, sorry. You just don’t have that kind of understanding of life whatsoever at that age. You are still all of a baby.
Also, in case you are unaware, even within families, lore tends to develop and grow wild over the years as well. Why? Because that’s life. I am Sicilian bud and older so I know the drill. Been there done that.
Further, given David sank into major drug use later in his life (including several overdoses), David’s judgment of whatever recall he may have had other than the screaming and the crying has to be questioned. But no. At 6 or 7, you cannot understand nor reconcile adult situations whatsoever. NO sale.
And besides. The rumor mill was flying back then on Marilyn. Anyone or their brother connected to Hoover or mob, was saying anything about her to get back at her for just being the independent spirit she was and could have said anything to Ethel or made sure something incriminating was whispered in her ear by the right person. It doesn’t mean it happened. I already told you. Do some research into MARILYN’s life in 61 and 62. You will find not many holes for “falling in love” with Bobby the shrimp.
And do yourself a favor and do more research on how misinformation and lying is used by evil people in power.
Diary? You’ll leave nothing of the sort to me. It never existed.
Look friend. I have nothing against you, the mod, nor anyone here on this thread. I came here thinking it was a cool place. I have seen otherwise. At least it’s not for me. The mod is using Marilyn to sell her other books. I abhor that.
I’m after the truth, facts and getting to conclusions based on reality – not misinfo and lies or just rehashing the same old SPECULATION over and over. I want MM’s DC changed and I will help see to it that it is. Natalie Wood’s was just changed because SOME people cared enough to keep pushing for it and cutting through the lies in her case also.
Marilyn is no different. She didn’t commit suicide. She wasn’t distraught about losing EITHER JFK or RFK, because at best, if she had any interaction with either, she took it in stride like the champion she was. She was a survivor and was taken out against her will. Not by the Kennedy’s but by people who hated the Kennedy’s and people who hated HER.
So let’s do all a favor and end this back and forth. Tell the mod to delete my posts, pretend I never existed and continue to be happy on your thread and whatever your doing with it. I have bigger fish to fry and am wasting my time continuing this with you or anyone else.
I have a place to post my beliefs based on my own research and will continue to do so. I don’t need a thread like this. And I’m not looking for validation nor interaction there either from anyone. My shit is more like a book. You read it, you like it or you don’t. End of story. I have done the hours of research and short of some BRAND NEW revelating evidence, I know what I see. Simple. Only I will never officially write a book and sell Marilyn out. That’s my difference. I am the anti-book of which there have been plenty and most who have gotten many things wrong because they bought into the misinfo and had to “spice it up” in mystery to sell units.
I do this for Norma Jeane ONLY . Not for you, this mod, or to “commiserate” with others. One thing’s for sure. We shall see in the end who’s right or wrong. The day you hear her DC has been changed, you will reluctantly think about me because I will have had some part in it.
You or others don’t like what I write or how I write it? No prob. Your prerogative. Frankly, that’s not my concern. I admit I stepped into this thread with my own free will, and now I’m stepping out. This is my last post here. Period. Have a nice life.
well at least we agree on J. Edgar
The lividity is clearly on Marilyn’s back which would indicate she died in that position and was later repositioned on her front for whatever reason.
Yes, agreed!
Marylin gavé birth to a daughter in 1961.The child was flown out of America.
Marilyn never gave birth. There are no photos to indicate that she was pregnant (and showing) at anytime during 1961. She wanted so much to have a child, and she was pregnant several times, but never to term. Because of her own childhood abandonment, and lifelong feelings of a childhood lost, she would never have given up her own baby – ever.
To liquidsky9 – your comment, in part: First, when you have as many kids as Bobby and Ethyl had, looking for sex outside your marriage is unnecessary. Clearly they were having unprotected sex as much as they wanted and anytime they wanted.
You’re kidding, right? Just because Bobby was knocking up his wife and being the good Catholic boy by readily procreating, it DOES NOT mean he’s not hot to trot elsewhere. Look at the facts: For much of his marriage, his wife was pregnant, so when she was in the advanced stages of each pregnancy and post-pregnancy, Bobby wasn’t gettin’ any…and, do you really think he, or any man, would pass up the opportunity to have sex with Marilyn Monroe, despite their situations (good or bad) at home? After all, you made the same argument in reverse in your post when talking about MM and JFK.
I’m sorry, but MM and the Kennedy brothers (who were known womanizers!) didn’t hold hands and skip down a lane together singing squeaky clean folk songs. Certainly, Sex WAS involved…shock horror! JFK and RFK may not have been directly involved in her death, but they all exchanged bodily fluid a few times, that’s for sure.
Your opinions are strong, and SOME are valid, but you’re not always right. Everyone is entitled to their own dissection of the situation without being told to sit down, shut up and listen to you. Please be respectful of others here. You have a right to voice your opinion, as does anyone else who cares to chime in, but I won’t tolerate a condescending attitude on my blog. I’ve refrained from scolding you before because I realize this area of MM’s life can stir up emotions in people. Bottom line, we’re all commenting because we have a like-minded fascination. Two words – Be nice! 🙂
Mod –
Ahh, some pretty harsh words for a Wednesday. That’s fine, it’s your blog. Seems more like you’re having a bad day, in a bad mood, and taking it out on me. That’s OK too, because since YOU attacked ME, I’m in the perfect mood myself to respond. My reply:
First, I don’t recall ever recall using words, “ Sit down, shut up, and listen.” That is all your inference – and your prerogative. Fyi, the rare times I post here, it’s all MY OPINION. That’s the nature of a post – opinion. However, it just so happens my opinion comes with plenty of research behind it. Many here don’t. I also don’t write books to make money, I don’t sell salacious stories I make up – I tell the truth about Marilyn Monroe and don’t care who can’t handle hearing it. And believe me, she’s happy to have me. You and others just don’t like it when someone comes around telling the TRUTH which rubs against your romanticized vision of all the salacious bullshit you have been fed by the MSM, Los Angeles County, Hollywood, the government, and all the charlatan book-writers looking for unit sales at Norma Jeane’s expense. I am anti-ALL THAT.
Now. Your wild thesis regarding RFK/Ethyl’s pregnancies and his sexual exploits is comical. No, false. I guarantee you Marilyn Monroe NEVER had sex with Bobby Kennedy. She referred to him in private as, “a little shrimp and not my type.” If you do your homework, you’ll see Marilyn wasn’t interested in short men. Her first real benefactor early on was super-agent Johnny Hyde. He was a short, wealthy man – but also very sick in 1950. He begged Norma Jeane to marry him so she would be set up for life when he died. She many times said no on the basis that was not her attraction nor her love. He did wind up dying that year and instead of Norma Jeane inheriting his fortune, she inherited a kick in her ass by his family. That’s the REAL Norma Jeane principle. So to say she would just have sex with Bobby Kennedy because he was Attorney General is hysterical. She had sex with Johnny Hyde because he was helping her get her career started. With Bobby… sorry, no good reason. She didn’t like short men and that’s that.
Further, your using the argument that Ethyl was so knocked up all the time, Bobby was out getting laid elsewhere is at best entertaining. I won’t opine on Bobby’s conduct throughout his life outside of where it concerns Marilyn, because frankly I don’t care. But I certainly don’t mind debunking your main point and theory with these FACTS:
The following are all Bobby and Ethyl’s children:
Kathleen H. (b. 1951), Joseph P. II (b. 1952), Robert F., Jr. (b. 1954), David A. (1955–84), M. Courtney (b. 1956), Michael L. (1958–97), M. Kerry (b. 1959), Christopher G. (b. 1963), M. Maxwell T. (b. 1965), Douglas H. (b. 1967), Rory E.K. (b. 1968
So. It’s a given the timeframe in question here is summer, 1961. At least that’s where all the salacious writers you look to for truth have said it was for Bobby and Marilyn’s “affair” haha. It’s pretty clear to see up there that the closest child birth to that era was in 1963. To be exact, I will tell you it was on July 4, 1963. So July 4, 1963 minus 9mo = November, 1962 for conception for old Christopher G.
Then if we continue back in the timeline, we will see the next oldest child was born in 1959. Hmmm. I guess that means Ethyl wasn’t preggers in 1961. Nor was she in 1962 while Marilyn was still alive. Apparently Ethyl wasn’t even pregnant in 1960. So plenty of opportunity for old Bobby and Ethyl to be getting their ya, ya’s out whenever they wanted to – and which of course flushes your weird theory right down the lou and actually lends more cred that during that particular time period, HE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE REASON YOU STATE to be looking to Marilyn Monroe for sex. Besides, as I correctly and factually pointed out, the summer of 1961 was at least a difficult time for Marilyn having been incarcerated in a nut house in February of that year, among many other upsetting things.
I say again so you can hear me: It also makes ZERO sense that Bobby would have chosen that time to begin an “affair” as you like to call it, with Norma Jeane (since who wouldn’t want to have sex with Marilyn Monroe, I believe you stated haha), esp with her about fresh out of a nut house (which all of America if not the world was privy to also). It wouldn’t make sense for his career, nor his family if he ever got caught. Frankly, it would make zero sense to him also. See? If you and the other salacious crew would use some logic for a change, you’d see 95% of your theories as “maybes” just don’t add up. Besides, in March she was in Florida with Joe. On June 29, 1961, Marilyn was back in New York having her gall bladder removed (with Joe looking after her). In July, her sister Berniece came to stay with her in NY, as she was recovering. So now please tell me, when would there be time (OR INCLINATION for that matter) for an actual frolicking “affair” with Bobby Kennedy that summer? Don’t answer. There is none.
Suffice it to say my friend, Marilyn’s 1961 was challenging and one could say even dismal. It wasn’t about frolicking in the sand like two young high school kids with Bobby Kennedy that summer (uhhh, in love (gag), as Jeanne Carmen lied about. Marilyn’s movie, ‘The Misfits’ also came out on Feb 1, 1961 and the reception was underwhelming. Clark Gable, who was in that movie and was a long-time father figure to Marilyn, died suddenly of a heart attack in Nov 1960 – a few weeks after the movie production wrapped. Marilyn was of course devastated. Hmmmm. I’m still looking for an opportunity THAT MAKES SENSE, where Marilyn would have had the time, and mindset to be falling in love with Bobby Kennedy. That’s because IT NEVER HAPPENED.
As said, I could care less who Bobby was banging in his spare time. Likely it was next to nobody. In reality, he was an overly-responsible and serious guy who had a hard-on for his work and sense of public service. He drank rarely and attended parties just as rarely if they weren’t related to political causes or fundraising. Maybe try doing some REAL research on RFK and you will find this stuff out.
As for JFK, it also sounds like you have bought into the salacious fish stories that have grown since he was killed in 1963. Yes, JFK was going outside his marriage to Jackie for sex, but you can best believe his conquests were much more limited than the lore would have you believe. Do you know who Mary Pinchot-Meyer was? Look her up. Beginning in October 1961, thru 1963, JFK was keeping up an intimate relationship with her, much at the White House itself when Jackie was away. And yes, she DID keep a diary as she became a journalist in her career. Marilyn DID NOT. Mary was a child of privilege and old money – an obvious lure for JFK. And of course he had his female page interns as well. A whole other topic to be sure.
But. If you know anything about guys at large whatsoever, you would understand that most guys, even guys like JFK and RFK, THRIVE on hearsay reputation. For the majority of guys, 50% of what their reputation boasts when it comes to female conquest is only the truth. For many guys it’s less than that. So if you’re still intent on believing all the lore stories about JFK and all his conquests, be my guest. Half of them never happened. And one of those that didn’t could certainly have been Marilyn Monroe – and that’s in total. The March 1962 weekend may not have happened to way you hope it did! How do you like them apples? It could have just been a whole bunch of flirting and empty promises. Naturally, a JFK and an RFK wouldn’t mind a bit if the rumors it did got out in circulation. Duh.
If Marilyn did decide to acquiesce to a JFK that weekend, so be it and so what. As I said IT’S her business and only hers. What is bothersome is how peeps like you want to turn that into the rest of the garbage that was hypothesized by Summers, et al. Oh, Marilyn was so distraught she was “passed” from JFK to RFK and they both said they’d marry her…. so she just killed herself. UGHHHHH. I can primal scream that bullshit is so false. Please. Stop discrediting Marilyn’s integrity or inner strength as a woman. She was just as big inside as her outer icon image had grown. Don’t EVER sell her so short. Ever.
Norma Jeane was a true Gemini and what goes with that is being a sexual person. That’s who she was and there are no apologies given to you or anyone else on the subject. It DOESN’T mean however that type of person is a whore having sex with anything that moves – President of the US or not. With whomever, whenever and wherever Norma Jeane had sex or with anyone was strictly her call. And that includes another woman. There is nothing dirty about having sex as it’s a natural part of life and for certain Gemini’s will ALWAYS explore that side of themselves. Take that one to the bank and get over it.
WHAT IS DIRTY HOWEVER… is when people like you and the rest try to use Norma Jeane’s (or anyone’s for that matter) sexuality against them for salacious purposes, to sell books, etc. You and the rest are so dying to believe she was “sleeping with” “having an affair with” and everything else with, both Kennedy brothers that it’s comical. Most of you believe THEY had her killed, or she killed herself over them, haha. You will go to these kind of extremes, above and beyond all logical reality, to let yourselves believe it!! Why? Because it’s titillating, cool, exciting, et al. It’s sad for you really.
As far as your blog and its opinions. I see you responding to everyone’s posts from a position of authority, so you’re a fine one admonishing me for doing the same – yet in my case I actually have the research cred to back up my claims. From some of your responses, I just don’t see it. I mainly seeing you adding to the same murky waters that were established in 1962. This must stop.
Bottom line my friend, at some point, people need to stand up for the truth rather than just opining away on merit of all the lies that have been perpetuated about Marilyn Monroe. I get it now that your blog is not about truth, but merely about “fascination” about anything that has been reported and never getting down to truth. I have read a few smart posters here on your blog who are dealing in facts. The majority however are dealing in fantasy. This is not a forum for truth via logic and facts. Rather it is one that allows and encourages anyone to show up after reading Slatzer’s, or Summers’, or Wolfe’s books, or seeing something incorrectly stated online and opine away in all their salacious glory.
To that, I leave you and your guests. I came here to inject logic and truth and I am admonished for it. You can’t handle the truth so I will leave you to your endless convoluted fascination.
Two words: I’m out.
Next.
I don’t think being extremely pregnant is a good reason to use as them not having sex. As I don’t think just because RFKs wife wasn’t pregnant for a period of time means that he had no reason to stray. First of all, the Catholic religion does not believe in birth control. The only way to keep from having a baby is to abstain from sex. Maybe that’s the reason she wasn’t pregnant for that period of time.
Point being…YOUR interpretation of facts is just that. YOUR interpretation. Claiming you are basing all your information on facts is just a way to make yourself sound more educated on the topic. YOU interpret it one way, another person interprets it another way. Fact is, not every single moment of every single day is documented, so to say you know anything about what did or did not happen is certainly NOT fact. You can get an idea, but you do NOT know. You weren’t there to witness it.
Your so opinionated…can no one else have a theory or are you the only one that can…..and if so open your own blog the only reason your on this one is because no one wants to read your blog because it is soooooo……..omg don’t want to lower myself to your level I will leave it at that…
Thank you Michelle for saying that, someone had 2 thumbs up for you
@liquidsky – your last, longwinded, overblown post proved my earlier point perfectly. Thank you for reminding me why I said what I said. Enjoy your own company on your own blog. Maybe you can reply to your own posts, because you’re so obviously incapable of having an adult conversation without ramming your opinion (which you spew as gospel) down everyone’s throats. It’s your stage, and the world must nod to your blather and listen in silence, right?
Enjoy yourself, my friend. It’s going to be a lonely ol’ ride.
Next!
Mod –
Lonely old ride? Haha. Believe me, having to take the time to challenge all your tired 50 year-old party-line, misinformation-laden concepts you cling to and accept even in the face of new evidence and real, independent thinking is arduous for me (and frankly a major waste of my time). Why would I want that in my own space? I wouldn’t stand for it and that’s not how I have set it up. My arena houses my thinking for people to read. It’s not set up as an interactive fascination site where I’m also hawking my sellable wares like yours. My arena is for serious thinkers or just readers on the subject only – and it’s a given there are not many of those out there besides me. And if it’s only me, then people get my unique POV to read. Take it or leave it. No one forces anyone to read anything – except in your world apparently. Anyone can respond to anything I say if they have a point. You responding to me with admonishment rather than content or a POV doesn’t fly sister. In fact it reeks of jealousy.
A blog is also not a contest to see how many inane comments can be posted like yours is while never coming to conclusions. IOW. Norma Jeane’s life and death is not some whimsical, pointless, endless game of ‘But on The Otherhand!’ for me. I don’t profit from her life either and never will. I want the truth and I am finding it. Too intense for you? Tough. You stay on the sidelines where you belong with all the other sheeple who accept what they are told.
You and yours (save for a few intelligent and actually CONVICTED peeps that have posted here – bravo to them) are all too content to keep saying in perpetuity, “whup, I guess we’ll never really know…too bad.” Well, it’s too bad for you because it lacks character and fortitude – and too bad for Norma Jeane, she gets the short end of the stick AGAIN.
You just keep using your MM blog to help sell your other wares, Mod. You are not unlike many other profiteers out there looking to cash in on Norma Jeane’s life, death, and fame.
Even if there is only one of me out here – who think what I think, seek the unequivocal truth, and do so without profit in mind whatsoever – then I consider myself a success on behalf of a woman whom I have a lot of love and respect for. I will not sell her out like you and others.
Lastly, talk about rambling and lack of focus. Your blog epitomizes the words. How many posts do you have here?? and can you provide me even one conclusion, new or otherwise that can be gleaned or claimed by even a majority after so many posts? Answer: No.
My friend, I could never regularly hang out in a place so unfocused with a topic so deep. It just shows as mod that you have no point. And likely that is your point. That you have no point other than to drum up interest for your other wares on Norma Jeane’s dime. Besides that, it’s a place where people can come and post even the most ridiculous nonsense and error-filled content.
Good luck with that. Enjoy. 😉
Game over.
Thanks for your most recent comeback, liquidsky9. Now, should I delete everything you wrote? Nah…you’re doing a real good job of sinking yourself and digging a deeper hole with your insults and know-it-all attitude. FYI – It is not my objective to come to a “conclusion” on any story I post here. I merely post what is of interest to me, and to others. Unlike you, I don’t feel that my opinion or conclusion on any given subject is the final word.
Frankly, who would want to be involved with a blog where only the opinions of the blogger matters? Is that not why you are arguing with this moderator? Because she does not see things the same way you do? Boasting about how much you’ve researched and done does not prove anything. I think everyone that has posted here has done it because of their love for Marilyn. Marilyn (Norma Jeane) is an iconic figure. People idolize her. She is a myth and a Goddess and a realistically fierce woman all in one. People are allowed to have their own opinions of her. Her death is a mystery to some. There are always going to be fanatical stories about it. It is part of the stigma and mystery of who she was. Because people want to believe that this woman was so powerful, the POTUS had to have her killed, or because she was having an affair with two brothers, or because she was being watched by the mob. It is part of the intriguing story that keeps people interested. It is fiction. No one will ever REALLY know what happened for sure, and the people that do won’t talk. Truth is, she probably did accidentally overdose, but that story is too boring for the Great Marilyn Monroe, and maybe those around her tried to cover that up. Or maybe it is another case of a doctor like Conrad Murray that never did say no. People want to believe in the fantasy of Marilyn Monroe, and it is not your job to steal that from them. So go post YOUR “facts” on the case and add ANOTHER speculation, because lets face it, it’s all it’ll ever be. Speculation.
Lindsay, you are 100% correct, liquid boy is a putz, he has ALL the facts, but yet wont divulge a single thing, but his opinion, glad to see more people standing up this weasel
Thank you, Lindsay. Well said.
You know, I find it very, very sad when people with a like-minded interest turn on each other because one wants to dominate the others. As you said, anything regarding MM’s fate is speculation. If we knew the facts and if we had a specific, concrete timeline, we wouldn’t be coming up with these theories about what happened to her fifty years after her death! The only fact that we know is that no one knows…well, Pat Newcomb probably does, but she ain’t talkin’. Anyway…
Thank you to everyone who has posted their thoughts and opinions here in a friendly and respectful way.
Once again, Liquidsky, you’re back and sprouting your wares. Don’t for a second accuse me of using MM to sell my other books. This blog, MY blog, has news stories about many stars, not just MM. Most of my books are related to silent film, so fans of that genre are a world away from giving a hoot about Marilyn Monroe. Yes, my current project is a book about MM’s career. It’s a positive, career tribute to a part of her life that has often been overshadowed and overlooked, BECAUSE of the baggage in her personal life.
You’re not the gatekeeper to all things relating to Marilyn Monroe, but you claim ownership to every event and memory and attack others for even commenting. You’re right and everyone else is wrong…THAT’S your tone!
I gave you the benefit of the doubt, I let your posts sit for a while because everyone is entitled to their opinion. But when you start putting down others by browbeating them, it’s game over for me. I won’t stand for it.
Lindsay and John and I have every right to voice our opinion, to defend ourselves…and FIGHT BACK! You’re a bully – plain and simple!
Have to agree with this. He may have good evidence and whatnot, but some of his assumptions are way off and just opinions. Such as a six year old not being aware. I can guarantee you a six year old is more aware than what you think, especially if it was so bad for him at home. My five year old is very aware. If her dad and I have a fight, she recognizes it and then will tell her grandparents about it a few days later. With details. It is not incomprehensible that a six year old would be aware of it.
It’s not even that I believe one “theory” or another. Or even that I think that liquidsky doesn’t have good evidence. The problem is that he is trying to discredit everything else with assumptions that do not have a lot of backing. RFK didn’t have a reason to have an affair during that time period because his wife wasn’t super pregnant? David’s memories aren’t good because he was only six years old? These are opinions. It’s as
if he knows Marilyn better than anyone, and he is the only person that has ever extensively researched her.
It is a good thing that he thinks he has information that could change the way everything is viewed, it’s just sad to think that because he is so unwilling to recognize that maybe someone else has just as good as an idea. Someone so interested in finding the truth should be trying to validate John and his comments, or discredit them. Either way, you’d think he’d at least try to determine whether the stories hold any merit, instead of blowing them off because they don’t fit into his theory.
You’re right, it is bullying and it’s actually quite irritating. Instead of trying to get his truth out there, he is spending more time telling everyone else how wrong they are.
Either way, I apologize for ranting. I try to keep an open mind, and at this point I feel like I’m attacking him. It’s just hard to keep an open mind when instead of just voicing his arguments, he is basically calling people stupid for voicing theirs. Of course, why wouldn’t he since he has ground breaking evidence that supposedly no one in 50 years has uncovered. It discredits, for me, the validation of his evidence.
Anyway, I will stop now and tell myself not to concern myself with it anymore. However, I can’t make promises. Thank you Mod and John for trying to get him to see what he is doing. Unfortunately, I think it has gone past reasoning.
Hey Lindsay,,,,thank you for that reply to liquidsky, I got to thinking about his “evidence” and how he is going to change her death certificate, needless to say he is going to make ALOT of enemies if he actually has his supposed evidence, and if he names people, I would watch my back,,,these bad guys have grown up kids now and if it were me and someone accused my father of this, I would retaliate big time, sucks to be him, and good luck getting her DC changed it is not that easy and the press will pick up on it in a New York minute
Great response, I find it really sad when people feel they have to bully people to try and make there point and the righousness is unbelievable anyone would thing they were actually there when poor MM passed away for them to react the way they have.
OMG that Liquidsky guy, I did not even know where to begin with him. I think the guy is obsessed in a very unhealthy way. ‘Little Norma Jeane’? He never knew her as Norma Jeane. He rarely calls her Marilyn and I think that is just weird, it’s too personal to call her that all the time unless you knew her personally as a kid. And the Kennedy brothers “came to L.A. to visit their sister and soak up some California sunshine”! He lists them as reason 1 and reason 2. That right there tells me this guy is twisted and scary and not living in reality. Does he really believe that’s all there was to it? While he divulges that Joe Kennedy had business dealings with a movie studio (but of course no one but him knows this,) he leaves out the part that ol Joe was boinking Gloria Swanson and the Kennedy sons followed suit with movie stars when they got older. He doesn’t get that Pat would not take it personally if one of her friends slept with her brother(s). She was used to it, that is what Kennedy men did. I think Liquidsky has MM on a pedestal in a crazed way. A total ‘Madonna’ in his eyes. There was no ‘whore’ in her, she wasn’t even a woman who had sex, that is why she is ‘Norma Jeane’ to him. He kinda scares the shit out of me! Sorry, had to get this off my chest. But onto other things. I noticed in your post you said something about your books and silent film. What do you have on Garbo? Anything? I love MM, but Garbo came first, and I adore her.
I think Liquidsky has gone the way of the Wicked Witch of the West…he’s been vaporized. Good riddance, I say. On to other things…my current project, which I’m finishing up now, is a “Films of Marilyn Monroe” book. I haven’t really explored Garbo too much. Olive Thomas and Olive Borden are two books that are very dear to me, and my latest on the life and career of Lupe Velez is my favorite. Follow the link below, the top SIX books are all mine – http://www.mcfarlandpub.com/searches/advanced_search2.php?advanced=michelle+vogel&-Find=Start+Search
I thought mr liquidsky left the building after I outted him as a fraud, the guy is a punk with a sick obsession with MM,,,
I wish I had hours to read through all the blogs, so interesting & horribly traggic. I do NOT think liquidsky should be able to waist everyones time, he obviously has no life & just wants to argue w/someone! Correction- everyone! Eveything else I’ve read is really eye opening, but how kid JFK feel about MM? Did he directly have anything to do with it? I am just beginning to learn about this part of history.
With the *fact* that undigested pills were found in her stomach, in my own opinion, I think she was murdered. If she took them before she went to sleep (or even to end her life), the pills would not have been found whole in her stomach. So I wish to say that even if it’s never officially changed to say it was murder, I wish everyone would stop calling this a suicide.
Hi Phylis,,there were no pills found in her stomach what so ever, that was the one thing the people who took her out forgot to do, give her some pills, that would be found later during the autopsy, not so much the pills whole, at least the gelatin capsules that were bright yellow, no yellow staining was found at all
the filthy bastard kennedys were responsible , that family of disgusting drunks and corrupt garbage left a trail of destruction to everything they touched and yet the press managed to glorify them and fool an entire nation
Whenever I think of Marilyn, I think of how sad she must have been much of her adult life.No true parents to be there and to give her the necessary tools like confidence, love,nurturing, independence. I was born in ’74, so I obviously never knew her but from what I have read, Marilyn really wanted a baby and I think if she did, things would have been different for her. I think she would have made a great mom. As for the theory of her death, I know she was murdered too.Missing evidence, body moved,botched investigation,missing long distance call records and all the other screw ups. I’m surprised with modern DNA advancements,no one has decided to re open the case and see what type of DNA and other tests they can do for her and clear the air so to speak. I personally think Jackie O might have something to do with it. Everyone is thinking of the Kennedy men might be involved and they could be right, but what of Jacky? Marilyn was sleeping with her husband, that must have ticked her off. *Shrugs* just wondering.
I highly doubt Jackie had anything to do with Marilyn dying. Her husband fooled around with so many women and Kennedy women knew it and lived their lives knowing where they stood. Plus, it was hardly Jackie’s nature. Either Marilyn was murdered because she knew the wrong people or she overdosed and people had to cover their butts on their involvement with her and that took time to get rid of evidence. As far as the body being moved, I am sure people tried to save her life, but seeing it was hopeless had to deny their association and of even being there because they couldn’t tell just part of a story and too much would come out as far as her Mafia associations and of course the Kennedys. So they told lies but not lies about murder. I really think it was an accidental overdose. It happens all the time. The Kennedys denied associations with her, and people have turned that into a murder cover up. Not saying the Kennedys were good guys, they weren’t. And of course, anything is possible. If she was murdered, I would check out J. Edgar Hoover. He was always getting the Kennedy boys out of scrapes and he knew playing around with MM was political suicide. I think Bobby Kennedy knew what happened. If Hoover had her killed, it was because of Bobby’s philandering, not that Bobby ordered a hit. Just my opinion. But with MM’s lifestyle of drugs and alcohol, we will never know the truth. It could have gone either way. If murdered, Hoover probably had her done in with the help of the Mafia. It’s all so shady and mysterious and why we still are trying to solve the puzzle. One thing is for sure, she was in over her head and did not deserve the treatment she got from these high powered men.
I have absolutely no idea what happened to Marilyn. I do tend to believe David Kennedy’s first hand accounts, however. (Thank you for sharing this information) The idea put forth in a previous post that David could hardly have had any clear recollection given his young age is totally absurd.
I was born on December 29, 1960. I have a very clear memory of watching the Kennedy funeral on our black and white television just a few weeks before my third birthday. I kept asking my mother why the little boy (John Jr.) was wearing a dress. I felt very sorry for the little boy but had no real idea why. Death had no meaning to me.
Traumatic events are often embedded in our minds regardless of our age.
Just two days shy of my fifth birthday, just after I had been put to bed (which was at 8:00 p.m.) there was pounding at the door. I heard a commotion at the front door so I snuck out of bed (forbidden but I did it anyway). I looked around the door to see my brother bleeding profusely, holding his face. I remember the blood was hitting the 12 foot ceiling in the foyer, the walls and dripping to the floor. I was too horrified to cry. My father grabbed him and took him to the kitchen while my mother grabbed an entire stack of towels from the bathroom closet. I didn’t say a word, somehow in my mind I knew this was a serious situation, but watched as my mother tried to stanch the blood with towels and they would turn red immediately as if by magic. My father was frantically making phone calls from the kitchen phone. I don’t remember anything after that until my brother came home from the hospital. His face was stitched from above his cheek diagonally across his mouth to his chin. I remember my mother putting his food in a blender and him drinking from a glass through a straw because he couldn’t open his mouth.
My brother had been attacked on his way home by two deranged men who mistook him for someone else. One grabbed him and the other slashed his face with a surgical knife and it diagonally cut completely through his face,his lips, his gums, down to the chin bone. He managed to break away from them and was less than a block away from our house otherwise he would have bled to death. My oldest brother had our family car which accounted for my father’s frantic phone calls trying to get transportation to the hospital. We lived in a small quiet town in Kentucky at the time and this sort of thing NEVER happened. It changed everything and everyone in our town.
Don’t tell me that David Kennedy couldn’t possibly have damaging memories. It’s entirely plausible, entirely possible to have very vivid and disturbing memories of events which are emotionally scaring. Hearing his parents viciously fighting certainly falls into the traumatic category and although I wasn’t privy to his confessions, I certainly believe he was telling the truth. The Kennedy’s were a very high profile family and I’m sure that David was aware of his father and uncle’s elevated positions and the pressures and scrutiny which his family was subjected to.
Thanks again for all your information. I’ve never believed the official story of Marilyn’s death…. it has never added up to me.
WOW! Kimberly, thanks so much for sharing your traumatic family story. Were those men who attacked your brother ever caught? I cringed reading your recount of that night. No doubt, the attack left emotional scars for everyone in your family, and physical ones for your brother too. I also think David Kennedy is a very credible witness to what was going on in the Kennedy home at the time, no matter his age. I’m glad you enjoyed the post. Please come back again – Michelle :)https://mvozus.wordpress.com/wp-admin/edit-comments.php?same=1428#comments-form
Hi Kimberly, I am so sorry what your brother went through, and the ne who knew David very well, he was a good friend of mine for almost 15 years and I have never doubted anything David told me, David was a very complex individual, he was a very giving soul and very shy and he did not trust just anybody, he had a close knit group he could “vent” as he had put it and those of us close to him, never knew what he would talk about and what ever he told us, he knew we would not betray his friendship and talk about it to outsiders.
David was very vivid about his memory and at times I could not believe what I was hearing, but he was like anyone else from a dsyfunctional family, I miss my friend every day and visit his grave often.
Thank you for your kind words.
Michelle, they did catch the two men. Everyone knew everyone else in our town so it wasn’t that hard. Our judge was out of town on vacation when they came to trial, the substitute judge wasn’t as involved with the town or the impact it had, so the one who had held my brother was let go because his lawyer argued that my brother could not see behind him. Forget the fact that he had just passed the two on the street moments before his attack and identified both. The man who cut him was convicted and put in jail. I didn’t know until much later that he ranted an raved in court, saying he was going to kill my mother and me. Dad carried a gun around for a very long time. From what I understand the men were both dishonorably discharged from the Vietnam War, being found psychologically unfit for cutting up a Vietnamese woman. I don’t know this for a fact, it’s just what I was told. They had found work at a veterinarian’s office, hence the surgical knife. The one who did the cutting didn’t stay in jail for very long, just a few years. He pumped gas and my mother ran into him at the station, nearly scaring her to death. Luckily, she said that it seemed he was just as scared to see her. Both men ended up committing suicide. One playing Russian Roulette and the other by putting a bag over his head and shooting himself.
I loved my brother very much, he died three years ago. He was the black sheep of the family, took drugs, alcohol, and was unable to remain in a long term relationship. I always believed it was the trauma of the attack that caused his behavioral problems. I don’t think any of the rest of my family ever truly understood the effect that had on his psyche. It was a case of mistaken identity, the two men thought my brother was someone who owed them money and he never got over the rage of being such an unlucky victim of such a senseless crime.
John, I can empathize with David, I’ve seen first hand what trauma can do to a family. It seems everyone wants fame and fortune but in the case of the Kennedy family it seems to have been more of a curse than a blessing. It was such a shame that David couldn’t ultimately cope with the emotional pain that had been a part of his life for so long. I would imagine that part of it was the fact that everyone thinks people of their stature should be exceptionally happy. After all, you have all that money and privilege: what should you have to complain about. I think the general public has forgotten that money and fame cannot buy happiness. Look at Marilyn. All the fame and money couldn’t erase the emotional damage she harbored. And Princess Diana. Same thing. I don’t know when the world forgot two truisms. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and The love of money is the root of evil.
I’m so sorry that David couldn’t overcome the sadness that was inflicted on him throughout his young life. I’m glad that he had you, John. He needed friends who loved him. And telling his story is one of the greatest gifts you could give him. The world needs to know the truth. It wasn’t only Marilyn who was affected by the evil that surrounded this situation. David was an indirect victim as well.
I will be back, I find all of this truly fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Kimberly,,My deepest condolences to you and your family over the loss of your brother, I also have a brother who is addicted to drugs and I know the pain it can cause and disrupts the whole family, I would never define your brother as a black sheep, he was a lost soul because of his own tragic encounter with those evil men and you as a family should have had discussions with the States Attorney about the judge being away, you could have postponed the trial, that is what the prosecutiors office is for, the VICTIM !
David was the most caring person, he never sought the limelight and told me many times his family was cursed, David saw alot in his young life and he did not have the coping skills of having a Dad around, all he had was Uncle Ted and he was involved in his own drama and his Mom Ethel was and is a crackpot, he used to tell me that only a week after his Dads funeral, she was beating him and his brothers Bobby Jr and Joe with wooden spoons and hairbrushes, she definately lost her mind when Bobby was murdered, plus all the rumors about Bobby’s affairs,,MM and Jackie Kennedy, I know for a fact from David, there was nothing between Bobby and Jackie, they would both keep each other company after JFK’s death and talk about the assasination, nobody else in the family wanted to talk about it, plus Bobby felt a tremenous amount of guilt over his brothers death and he never got over it, David said his Dad would read poetry all the time and was just never the same after the murder.
I hope you and your family are ok after the trauma you all suffered, do not ever be afraid to talk to someone about it.
Kimberly, I’m glad those horrendous individuals were caught but it sounds like justice wasn’t served at all. I agree with John, everything that your brother felt and did following that attack was directly associated with it. Had to be. His life was forever changed. He served the life sentence, unlike his attackers 😦
Thank you both. I do agree that justice wasn’t served in my brother’s case but I don’t remember it at all and Mom and Dad didn’t talk about it all that much. I assume that everyone thought that the two would be prosecuted, we had more faith in the justice system back then. I know from the few conversations I had with my mom that it was a tremendous surprise to everyone that the judge dismissed the case against the second attacker. I don’t know if my parents ever pressed the issue or not. I think they just wanted to get over it and move on. Dad took the threats of the first attacker seriously, my family was on the defensive for a very long time, although I was too young to really understand it. We started locking our doors, something we had never done before, and I wasn’t allowed to open the door for people as I had been before. I liked greeting people, it made me feel grown up. But life did change for us all after this event. Especially my brother. As you said, it affected his entire life.
John, I never believed the RFK/Jackie rumors. I felt like they both had too much respect for their late brother/husband to cross that line. And my mother told me stories about Joe Kennedy and his womanizing. I felt sorry for Rose, she was in such a tough position. Joe always completely dominated the entire family from what I understand. I think things may have been different if she had had more say in raising the boys. Everything may have turned out differently if Joe hadn’t had such an insatiable thirst for money and power. I hope David has found peace. I know that he certainly deserved it. I felt sorry for Robert’s children. This isn’t the first time I had heard rumors of her brutality. And I certainly hope that someday we know the entire story behind Marilyn’s death, although, at this point, that doesn’t seem possible.
I know that you all have heard that subsequent owners of Marilyn’s house said that, upon renovation, they found an elaborate wiretapping system in her walls. The system was sophisticated enough to suggest the FBI was watching her every move. By all accounts, she knew this and I really don’t know how she functioned under such scrutiny.
Hi Kimberly,
It is funny that you mention Joe K. he was a very bad influence on his sons, it was almost like a game for them, to see how many of them bedded woman, there was no love lost on Rose and Joes marriage, Rose was extremely angry with Joe after what he did to Rosemary, she was born with mental retardation symptoms, very uncontrollable and very emotional, so Joe decided to take her to Chicago and have a frontal lobotomy done to her, to lessen her actions, well it was a complete failure and she ended up being put into a home for people with retardation, it was called St.Colletas in Wisconsin, well Rose about went ballistic on Joe and NEVER forgave him, being the good catholic she was,,,,move forward to Palm Beach in 1961, Joe had some difficulty in the morning hours, not feeling well, Rose went on to play 18 holes of golf and returned to the mansion around 2pm and saw his condition worsened, she would not allow an ambulance to be called till later,,,,as we all know by now, he had a massive stroke and remained that way till his death in November of 1969, that was Rose’s way of karma, plus it also allowed Jack and Bobby to go after the mafia, so long as Joe was coherant, he would not let his sons go after the mob, because he paid off someone in Chicago during the voting for JFK, that ALOT of votes disapeared and Jack won by the slimest margin ever,,,so after his stroke in December of 61, Jack and Bobby went after the mob yet again and Bobby knew it got his brother killed and then himself, and as they say KARMA can really bite ya in the butt
So true, John, As Earl says, “Karma is a Bitch”.
I knew that they institutionalized Rosemary but not the details. They never talked about her if they could help it. I knew that Joe was involved with the Mob, and all his affairs….he was such a piece of work, that one. I’ve often wondered how John felt knowing he was his father’s second choice for the presidency. His older brother was the golden boy. Only when he died did Joe’s attention turn to John.
As I understand it, when they found the wiretapping equipment in Marilyn’s house, they found two separate systems. They surmised that one was FBI and the other was Mafia. They both were after John and Robert and they were correct in thinking that they had found a connection through Marilyn. What is obvious is this. If both the FBI and the Mafia had wiretaps in Marilyn’s home then one or both of them know beyond a shadow of a doubt what happened that night. There has to be a recording of the event. I wonder what happened to those recordings. Were they destroyed or kept as some sort of trophy by a person or persons unknown.
That’s very true, Kimberly. The last hours of Marilyn’s life would have been recorded if the equipment was up to scratch and operating at the time. Also, if it was the FBI and the Mafia who installed these recording devices, why didn’t one of them see the other’s equipment and remove it?
Maybe it was just a fluke that the first device wasn’t seen by the second wire tapper, I don’t know. There’s so many leads and “what if’s” when it comes to Marilyn’s life and death, it’s frustrating, yet fascinating at the same time.
Hi Kim,,,,The mob definately had the house wired, Sinatra was in tight with Jonny Roselli and Roselli hated the Kennedy’s and wanted nothing more than to blackmail them, David would very rarely speak about the mob unless he had to many drinks in him, but then you wonder, whats fact or fiction, but he did say that Uncle Teddy had no use for Roselli and Hoffa, in my opinion I think the Kennedy’s had Hoffa whacked and put in a barrell filled with cement and dumped way out at sea, the Sinatra angle, he was (Frank) was pissed off at the President because he snubbed Frank over Bing Crosby, because back then, you had to be a total nut job to not know Frank was in with the mob.
I did see a documentary about a guy named Bernie Spindell who put bugs in MM house and he did say in his interview that there were other bugs in the house (FBI) J.Edgar hated both Kennedy’s and would have a had a field day with tapes from MM house with either of them on the tapes,,try going on youtube.com and typing in Bernies name and see if the interview is on there.
It was Victoria Hamel who reportedly bought Marilyn’s home and upon remodeling found the equipment. Reportedly it was wired with some equipment not available to the general public back then (FBI issue) but I’m not sure how the Mob and the FBI both were able to accomplish this in tandem. Although, at the time, the Mafia had unlimited power with all the unions, it could have been someone as normal as a “telephone man” who installed listening devices. The FBI’s power goes without saying… it’s pretty well known that some of Marilyn’s phone records went missing. I doubt if the Mafia was responsible for this trick. Perhaps the FBI and the Mafia thought this was a good way to keep an eye on each other as well as Marilyn and the Kennedys. Who knows?
John, I will check out that interview. The intrigue which surrounded the Kennedy administration is staggering and it seems Marilyn got caught in the web. It didn’t help anything that her ex-husband, Arthur Miller, was a known Communist and Marilyn followed his lead. She did not pick her consorts wisely, to say the least. She seemed to court danger quite readily although I don’t know if it was intentional or just the way things were done in Hollywood at the time.
I never cared for Sinatra. I’ve always thought there was something sinister about the man, but on top of all that you’ve said, I always thought there was something to the rumors that he, too, had a thing for Marilyn. He gave her that dog, Maf, (that name spoke volumes, didn’t it?) and I wonder if, on top of everything else, he was jealous of the purported relationship between Marilyn and the Kennedys. I don’t know what it was about her, but men seemed to want to own her but really didn’t want her when all was said and done. So very sad.
Kim, I googled Bernard Spindell and found a blog about his involvement with Marilyn, you might find that interesting
I’ve found a couple of links and have been reading. Interesting that his house was ransacked and his copies stolen. I’m surprised that he lived to tell about it.
If, in fact, the damned Kennedy’s had anything to do with Marilyn’s death they both paid for it within a short period of time. IF so, then I would imagine Bobby was the culprit. That little son-of-a-bitch new grew up and enjoyed playing bad ass. As Attorney General, I can see him feeling untouchable. I did not like them then and I like them less now.
Marilyn Monroe became familiar to me at age 4. I was caught, by my favorite aunt, looking at a photo of her in a magazine. She told me all about her at the time (1955) and I’ve been in love with her since. I have read almost everything published about Marilyn. I do not believe that she died as “they” would have us believe that she did. I also agree with some of your other blog contributors. There are only one or two people left living that possibly know the truth and sequence of the events on August 4, 1962. One of those people would be Patricia Newcomb. Pat is the starting point that might possibly answer most of the questions in all our minds. Obviously, to re-open an investigation into her death would not be an easy task, but if enough of the right-minded people were to become involved, an investigation could and would be re-opened. Last time I checked, such matters do not have a statute of limitations upon them. Murder certainly does not.
Sometimes the simplest reasoning is the truth. I have often thought MM died of an accidental overdose, possibly by enema with the aid of the housekeeper, who was known to assist her in this manner. (She talked about enemas and how Murray assisted her, on a tape to Greenson, along with other things, such as relating how she wanted to let her housekeeper go.) I read an opinion not too long ago which made a lot of sense. The breaking in of the bedroom window was because MM’s body was blocking entry into her room, after she had passed out. There has always been contention that the window was broken because the door had been locked, many contested there were no working locks, MM never locked her bedroom door, etc. Murray found her body too late to help. Peter Lawford spent the rest of his life in misery, knowing her final call to him was a cry for help, but he did not take it seriously as MM had the habit of taking too many pills and drinking. It took hours to call in her death because the Kennedys were worried of having their associations with her revealed, plus the studio had its own PR work to do, which is how its always been in Hollywood. Everyone kept quiet as to not bring any scandal, real or imagined by the public, down on the Kennedys and all these conspiracies came forth, with no actual proof of anything. And the stories have just grown and grown to absurdity. Accidental overdose. She had come close many times before. This one took her down. It happens all the time. If Murray assisted her with a drug induced enema and knew it, I am sure she carried guilt but kept her mouth shut. It makes sense to me. MM lying dead at her bedroom door for hours, then being placed on the bed by her two doctors after breaking the window to get into the bedroom because her body wedged the door shut. Something to think about.
I agree. I read somewhere years ago (I can’t remember what publication, but it was a reputable one) that the housekeeper confessed, on her death bed, to the accidental overdose of Marilyn Monroe.
My belief is, she had sexual relations with the Kennedy’s. JFK didn’t like what the CIA were doing back then. He also wanted to end Vietnam. The CIA didn’t agree with JFK. Normally when you have sexual relations with someone or person’s, you 9 times out of 10 end up finding things out that you don’t like or your not supposed to know when it’s with someone or people who are very powerful and know powerful people They said in the days leading up to her death that she was very paranoid. Well I wonder why. Cause she new things she wasn’t supposed to. I HIGHLY believe the CIA had something to do with her death. Now everyone has their own beliefs and opinions on this topic. Let’s keep that in mind. This is my belief. No bashing please!! R.I.P. Marilyn Monroe. You will always be missed!!!
I was left everything Omar was not. Including inhertiage from aaron storkin my godfather
Ok, who is Eileen, and what does her connection to JFK jr have to do with MM
I remember reading years ago that Marilyn was revived and that her doctor came in and started choking her. The ambulance driver’s testimony was discounted because he was not considered a credible witness. Has anyone ever heard anything about this?
The most beautiful woman lady princess goddess.precious angel ever that lived my idol was born same day june 1st gemini I love her I feel we are somehow connected I seen the pain in her eyes I’m living it to.I hope god blessed her with the most beautiful set of golden shinning wings when she entered heaven we and God knows she deserved and earned them God bless.u marilyn m ill always love and worship u as the most beautiful star ever lived cynthia xoxo
IT WOULD BE GREAT EVIDENCE IF SOMEONE KNEW WHERE HER DIARY WAS…IT DISAPPEARED THE NITE SHE PASSED BECAUSE THE KENNEDY’S KNEW SHE WAS WRITING ABOUT HER RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEM…..
I think her diary was probably kept by someone she knew closely.The fact it hasn’t turned up yet,could mean the person entrusted with it is still scared of who might publish it,& how they might twist it.
If there really was a diary,(probably more like a spiral notebook with a red cover), she entered things, innocent on her part, to remember things so she could talk intelligently to the Kennedys about politics. But, if there was one, I am sure it was long ago destroyed, probably as part of the clean up sweep done by Fox and those there to protect the Kennedys the night she died. Remember she had passed hours before her death was actually reported, Fox was alerted way before the police. And if it does exist, it probably was put into the files of the FBI by J. Edgar Hoover himself, that creepy little bastard. In his own private files so he could have one more thing to hold over the head of the Kennedys. If anyone else had it, surely they would have come forward by now. Just my opinion here, but Marilyn was always writing things down as thoughts came to her, scattered thoughts with no real organization, at times drugged as thoughts came to her. People make this diary sound like some separate organized detailed account of her relationships with the Kennedy brothers. Reading as much as I have on Marilyn, I think this highly unlikely. There may have been scattered ramblings in various notebooks, just like she would write out a shopping list alongside a poem she liked or a poem she perhaps penned herself while doodling, just letting creative thoughts flow. Various thoughts on the Kennedys and politics could have been intertwined in these typical writing habits of Marilyn, but it seems this diary, or even the idea of it, is way over glorified, even in its presentation of how it even physically looked. Just my thoughts.
A lot like Marilyn,I suffer from mental illness myself.A fact exploited by the school system for years.I am bipolar multiple personality,but until I complete the MMPI and prove it,nobody wants to believe me.The fact I was molested by a substitute teacher at the age of 5 also does not help.I hope someday they find her diary.I was raised as a boy,wanting to be a girl.A fact my siblings still cannot come to terms with.I love being Marilyn Monore,of all my persnalities it is my best.I miss her terribly.
I keep thinking about my performances as Marilyn.It must have been very intimidating performing for the commander in chief of the country,while dating both him & his relative.Although sleeping with Obama has never been on MY to do list,it would be nice to meet him someday & ask him how the hell he became president,much less getting re-elected.He happens to be the worst president since the famous traitor FDR,& the non-effectual Jimmy Carter.Anyways,I will always remember the first time I performed as Marilyn.It was both fun and educational.I can’t wait to do it again.
Hi!
My name is Sol.
I just read a publication in http://culturacolectiva.com/subastan-ultima-carta-escrita-por-monroe/ and it says that the suicide letter of MM is going to be auctioned.
Is it true? If there’s a suicide letter wrote by Marilyn this ends up with any theory of a murder, isn’t it?
(Sorry for my bad english)
Hi Sol,
I just translated your article link. Gee, very interesting, huh? As far as I know, there was no note. Could be another note from another attempt on her life, she took overdoses many times. Passing it off as THE suicide note will get them a lot more money for it. Thanks for alerting me to this.
It’ll be interesting to see how much the lot goes for!
Marilyn is my idol. She is 100% the most beautiful woman on the earth, no joke. I love all of her photos. And im devastated because of how she died.</3
I was shocked by the first pic pro bc #1 she had no bone structure almost doesn’t resemble her at all! #2 She has no lips! Is this from the angle of the way she is laying without a pad or pillow like we see at traditional funeral homes today? #3 all of this is AFTER embalming? Because that would make since where the lips went and what other areas are sewed shut? I know sounds weird but I always thought death was beauty. Guess I’ve been to some great services???
Hi Angelica, There are no pictures of MM in her casket, the pics you saw were prior to her being embalmed, contrary to popular belief the lips do not get sewn shut, I am an embalmer with 27 years experience and having embalmed over 18,000 bodies and I can assure you the pics you saw were from the L.A. County medical examiners office or her lying in her bed.
I am so pleased to have found your site. I have been concerned about Marilyns death for a number of years. I don’t understand why her death hasn’t been investigated in the years since her death, We all know that she was murdered and want to know who did this and how. Why has it remained a mystery for 50 years ? The world wants to know. I’m sure it was the Kennedy’s as well. Robert and John should not be held in such high regard. It’s time for the truth to come out.
I studied Marilyn’s records.I was very surprised to hear her stomach contents did not reveal the drugs they claim she took to commit suicide.I have impersonated her on many occassions,as I am a female impersonator,who loves to look like the legend.Just like my suspicions in my family of my parents being bumped off by doctor negligence & over medicating them,& my grandparents.It is hard to experience such a loss due to negligence or homicide.Marilyn will be sorely missed by all.
I disgusts me how carelessly and innapropriatly the man is pointing to the pills in the first image. Like obviously, but with her lifeless body lying there? Maybe I’m just weird, but I find it disrespectful.
Does anyone remember JFK’s birthday party at Madison Square Garden? Ms. Munroe was late upon her arrival when Peter Lawford first introduced her. When she finally arrived Mr. Lawford re-introduced her where she sang happy birthday the JFK. Mr. Lawford’s second introduction: “Ladies and gentlemen…the “late Marilyn Munroe” (this was audio/video cast in the news coverage of JFK’s event). Was this a go-ahead order to implement a plan to have her murdered?
Of course not. He kept announcing her and she wouldn’t appear. When she finally did he said those words, a joke at the moment…it’s these silly stretched out ideas that start all kinds of conspiracies in the minds of those who don’t think and see things logically or realistically. Some things are obvious to call, this would be one. She was simply late arriving on stage.
It has been a long-standing tradition in many cultures for people to be photographed and also displayed after death. This isn’t something that needs to be thought of as distasteful or disrespectful. Death is the last event of one’s life. Healthy grieving requires that one acknowledge the final event and say good bye. In order to have that final closure it is healthy to see an image, and if possible, pay one’s respects in person to the individual who has died. So, I don’t agree with those who would say that it is wrong to share these pictures. Generally, it is more respectful to show the person in a state of peaceful repose, rather than at the scene of where they drew their last breath, however, especially if they were the victim of a bloody car accident or a homicide. Still, there is value in seeing life in all of its imperfection.
I had heard about photographing the dead and did not realize just how popular it was back in the day was until I found a large collection of vintage death photos on someone’s Pinterest wall. Seems to be the way it was done back in Victorian times. Some are actually posed so that the look like they are still living. It was eerie at first, but you can see the love that is put into some of the photos.
Such a beautiful but very sad woman…. I believe the house keeper had something to do with Marilyn’s death. Instead of calling the police as soon as she found her I believe she called her (marilyn) doctor who was the one who had put her on the sleeping pills in the first place, who then broke the window to get into the room and still waited hours before contacting police. Who knows what could have been covered up in the time that she was “found” to the time that the police where called.A policeman also reported that while they where there the housekeeper had put a load of washing on. So its around 4am or something’ she (housekeeper) has just found MARILYN MONROE dead in bed and she thinks its a perfect time to do some housework… but I guess we will never really know what happened that happened that night
I wish the photos were colored so We can see a better picture instead of black and white , marilyn monroe is my idol and for me to be african american and 16 years old i love her to death and i wish she would of never died
Hi Vantasia, There are color photos, but the Coroners office has custody along with the L.A. P.D. maybe sometime in your lifetime, those photos will surface, you are not alone in your admiration of MM
Hello John,my name is Jessica and I just read the whole entire thread,as it is called? I’m 32 and am not all that computer literate. I’m absolutely amazed yet confused about her,MM. I have the question of what is fact in her death? Also,says who? And her affairs with both brothers,who said that initially,why? I have alot of who’s and why’s!!!
In my 27 years as a fireman, and emt I have seen death in many ways and remember we are just visitors on this planet, but such a shame to see people in there worst, I still remember her in her fullest.
This is going a way back and I’m not sure if anyone or the original Author still checks in on this post, but is this the ‘real’ post-mortem photo of Marilyn a poster mentionned seeing in a book earlier on? http://cheddarbay.com/Unsolved%20Mysteries/Marilyn%20Monroe/dead.jpg
To me, it looks ALOT more like the Marilyn we know than the woman in the autopsy photos we are all used to seeing.
I’ve read the other comments about lividity, but her back and face look to me like she’s been beaten. Also, even with her eyes closed you can tell she was very unhappy by her serious looking eyebrows and straight lips
Hi Anne, I read your post, Lividity is a pooling of blood at the lowest point in the human body, I am Michelle’s on site mortician, I have read the autopsy report and saw the pics of MM body, The one thing that bothers me about the pic, the back of her head, she has bad bed head, which is NOT common in an overdose, you do not thrash about in bed when you have taken an OD, I want to know why Eunice Murray was doing laundry at that hour and Murray usually did not spend the night at MM house, until that night, WHY ???
My “on site mortician” – HAH! I love that, John 🙂
I thought you would get a hoot out of that, so see folks, you see Michelle endorses me, ask away LOL
Absolutely! I’m honoured, John 🙂
The hair was matted because of years of bleaching.and clorine from the pool..older,depressed,no work,health issues and the word love abused…time took its tole..one last enima for weight control… very sad…very alone…only joe really understood.
I have already added my thoughts about Marilyn’s demise and i have read every book about her background illness ” I do agree with the fact that her two Doctors had played a pivotal role with how Marilyn had died, but also i come to the conclusion that the blame was entirely Marilyn’s fault how she had died?
When people discuss Marilyn’s autopsy report many do not include the other important facts that was included in the initial report ( Blood poisoning? this was probably the main factor why Marilyn was always ill on set while she was filming her last film, the effects of drinking long term on medicated tables were lethal but this was not known as much in Marilyn’s time as it is today? She was always lethargic and had respiratory breathing problems and on her last day alive she had asked Eunice if there was any Oxygen in the house? she had also suffered from insomnia which must of been awful to deal with.
Here are some interesting facts about blood poisoning –
Alcohol is a depressant. It slows down your nervous system and can impair your ability to function, cause a lack of coordination, and lead to addiction. Mixing alcohol and drugs can be dangerous, if not fatal, regardless of whether the drugs are recreational, prescription, or over-the-counter. Alcohol should never be mixed with any type of medication without consulting a doctor. It can negate the effects of the drug, exacerbate the effects of the drug, or intensify the side effects of the drug. Drugs can also influence the effects of alcohol on the body, leading to health problems or death.
Below is some information about the effects of mixing alcohol and drugs. This is not a comprehensive list; if you or someone you know has a problem mixing alcohol and any drug, seek professional help.
Anxiety Drugs, Antipsychotic Drugs, and Antidepressants
Taking alcohol with an antidepressant may worsen the symptoms of the depression. If your depression gets worse, you may drink more in an attempt to elevate your mood, initiating a dangerous cycle. Drinking can also counteract the effects of your antidepressant and increase your risk of addiction.
Because many anti-anxiety medications are also depressants, mixing them with alcohol can cause a dangerous slowing of your organs and central nervous system. Your alertness and motor functions become impaired, and you may feel excessively tired. Mixing alcohol with other depressants can also lead to respiratory failure. When alcohol is consumed with a type of antidepressant called an MAOI, it can cause a dangerous increase in blood pressure.
Anyway i just thought these details.were also important to note.
Sorry i forgot to mention that many people who read about her activities in the last months of Marilyn’s life thought that she appeared okay and didn’t seem that she was drinking much? but in her final interview for Life magazine she was interviewed at her Brentwood house just five weeks before she had died, the interviewer had notice how Marilyn’s mood swings were erratic and she also expressed angry towards the Hollywood system she was also drinking a lot of champagne? when you listen to the interview she offers the interviewer some as well but he refuses and i expect she was taking her daily medication as well?
The beauty mark (mole) appears on the left side of her face in real life. On autopsy#1 and autopsy#2, I’m seeing the mark on the right, so it does seem that the photo was printed in reverse. (A very easy action to accidentally do when manually developing photos in a dark room, albeit not very professional.)
Anyone notice in the post-mortem pic if her face and according to scientific Laws Of Physics, that the dicoloration an the left side of her face was caused by blood settling to the lowest point and that in the pic that shows her in bed dead that it is her right cheek of her face thst is faced down not the right side as shown in the post mortem pic. That is something that the morons who placed her in bed/murdered her didnt know that blood sets at the lowest parts of the body after death…..Hmmmmmm!?
Very interesting comments. I learned a lot and am fascinated by the variety of theories. Has anynew info surfaced regarding Marilyn’s death?
What a beautiful woman she was. She will live forever in our hearts!
She was so used by people who just wanted to make money off her or try to sleep with her.
My hope is that her and Joe Diemagio are reunited again.
I can only agree with everything you said ❤
About the massive Bruise on the left Hip you can see it on the same area 3 weeks before her death of her last photoshoot on the beach here:
Oh yes i can see it. Wonder how she got them? I also think she was very skinny on these pictures. So sad & i still love to read everything about her. She was one of a kind.
I always wondered about this photo of her leing on the bed, they said they thied to bring her back to life… usualy you are on the ground on your back than… So why is she on her stomach in her own bed???
I always wondered about this photo of her leing on the bed, they said they tried to bring her back to life… usually you are on the ground on your back than… So why is she on her stomach in her own bed???
These were the words of that bastard mortician at her autopsy: “She looked
Iike a very average, aging woman who hadn’t taken good care of herself; Her roots were showing, her legs hadn’t been shaved for at least a week and her lips were badly chapped. She was also in need of a manicure and pedicure.” Well excuse her, for the fucking fact that she was suffering greatly in terms of her mental state, most likely because she had been very depressed for a time, before becoming suicidal, and she was going to die that night because 25 Nembutal/pentobarbital pills and chloral hydrate were no preparation for a fucking runway show, or to get all dolled up for the fucking ass-wipe excuse of a coroner! Sorry, but I ain’t going to go lightly on this because this sort of thing truly fucks me off, and is precisely why I have such distrust in society.
I find this lack of humanity very depressing. It triggers me also because because I know what it is to have grown up in that kind of narcissistic environment, whereby you being sick was less of a worry than your puke messing up their cream carpet, or the fact that you ain’t dolled up on the hospital stretcher. And no doubt, the sort of people I grew up around would have had the same attitude as that sad excuse of a man, who, in my opinion, should not have been employed in a job that requires great respect and sensitivity for one’s dignity. I know the kind of people who would most likely expect, without directly saying it, that you’d better see to it that you’re looking like you’re ready to hit the movie scene when you hit the autopsy scene! It’s a sad, sad world.
It doesn’t matter that she has been dead for years now; It is still horribly tacky, disrespectful and a complete breach of trust & professionalism to release this private information – also much of it in detail in a book.It’s all just pure greed. With MJ it was the same total lack of respect and images of him released, laying on a stretcher. Pathetic people trying to make a buck off of the dead!
I may not have lived back in her time, but I understand her mental profile, growing up in a very superficial money and image focused environment, and I have an understanding of what it is like to live with the pain she lived with, and being so misunderstood.
She was beautiful as a whole, as a soul, and she was so insightful, from the things I’ve seen her write, her interests in reading and philosophy, or quotes I’ve seen from her. She was a person who had so much depth that typically society overlooked. She was greatly misunderstood. She was beautiful, way beyond what the masses saw her as. Beyond just flesh.
R.I.P beautiful x❤️🌹
Hi, im a huge fan of Marilyn Monroe. Ive got a book that has copies of marriage documents, birth certificate, letters, presription notes, etc. Can you please give me the info on the autbor and the book you mentioned? Id love to read it , thanks. Maggiorejennifer@yahoo.com
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How did Marilyn Monroe get the small s scar on the top right of her forehead? Was this from childhood? If you enlarge it you will see it. Just curious.